Abu Ghraib jail - uk link

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Guardian_Reader, Feb 20, 2005.

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  1. ...including the 'use of dogs, stress positions, and yelling, loud music and light control,
    So what, anyone who's done E & E training at any level will probably have come across this sort of thing. It was standard when I did it and even though all the stuff about human rights going on, I'm sure it still does. The extreme interrogation fits, what doesn't are the pin head and red neck photo posing.
  2. Zofo

    I havent got time to get into the details of whether the use of dogs, stress positions, etc are 'legitimate' or not. There's already been a lot of intelligent discussion of such matters, from all points of view, on this site.

    I am not saying that your point of view is wrong, however I worry that it is partly based on a fundamental and common misunderstanding of the nature and purpose of 'E & E' exercises, 'resistance to interrogation trg' for personnel exposed to capture, etc.

    The same misunderstanding is shared by pinko fellow-travelling anti-fox-hunting journos etc who for years alleged that "British forces are trained in illegal interrogation".

    The purpose of specialist controlled 'resistance' training is to prepare the individual to resist and survive treatment by other forces who may not share OUR standards. 'E & E' exercises were just that - exercises run at unit level to develop individual initiative etc.

    Basic education in the Geneva Conventions, on the other hand, has been for years a regular part of individual military training in the British Army.

    By the way, the relevant Geneva Conventions have been in force since 1949, and have nothing to do with today's fluffy human rights stuff. Also by the way, I am not claiming that everything in the garden is lovely, and has been since 1949. Nor am I for one moment suggesting that prisoners with information are not to be effectively, productively and professionally questioned.
  3. Well, yes, so you probably have - this is done in order to introduce members of PTC units to techniques and methods which might be used against them. It's OK if you do it to your own guys who are volunteers, it is most decidely not OK to do it to EPW, according to UK doctrine.

    UK standard interrogation of EPW complies fully with the letter of the Geneva Conventions.
  4. Well said, G_i_a_o, said what I was trying to, and a darn sight more succinctly.

    PS Any thoughts on the original story in this topic? I do remember it being originally denied.
  5. T6, interesting article indeed. I am hoping you as an American agree with the point made earlier that there is a distinction between (a) professional trained operators who understand and follow the rules and (b) unprofessional undisciplined 'amateurs' who misunderstand or abuse the rules.

    The former will usually be more effective.
  6. I agree.
  7. Good article by a student :!: in the Sunday Telegraph on a 'reality' version of Camp Delta, etc., he and 5 other volunteers were to be kept under the same conditions fo 60 hours... they were paid £400 for the privelege, as he says' 'being torutured for below minimum wage'. Interesting insights... sadly I am a Luddite and can't give you a link. It was in the Review Section.

    Hackle, I think you're right.. I understand that the Brits who are being tried for mishandling used the defence of not being given pre-deployment training or specific training - which is of course why they thought the right thing to do was strip them and make them simulate sex acts :!: - because no one told them not to - amateur and unprofessional - even within the British Army.
  8. I'd find it hard to believe, unless the UK officer's job was to advise and his advice was overruled or ignored. There was a story that the UK contingent had been withdrawn from Aby Ghraib before it all went pear-shaped, perhaps that's something to do with it.