Absence (AWOL)

#1
Don't know if this has been beaten to death on previous posts as I am an Arrse JB, but here it goes:

Hypothetically of course

A bod is absent (AWOL) for just under 12 months, caught by civvie plod for a misdemeanour, returned to 'Depot' for disciplinary procedures. Lo and behold instead of the cnut getting a swift Courts Martial and 6 months in Colly followed by 'soldier on', it now looks like 'Summary Dealing' by the CO, discharge and off to the pub on Friday for celebratory beers!!!!!

Is there no recommended procedure for absence any more? in times gone past it used to be (minor <28 days) pay back your time absent to HM the Q in nick, with an extra amount (same again) for being a cnut, (major >28 days) Courts Martial and go to jail with lights flashing and escorts.

Over to you.
 
#2
There have always been stories of the guys who go AWOL turning up 6,10 or in once case 50 years later and getting 1 night in the guardroom followed by discharge and sent back home again.

I don't know if there is a set length of time that you have to be away for (a year and a day is always favourite) but I think the personel situation on the outside has a bearing on what happens.

If a guy has legged it and then married, got kids and a job etc etc and really doesn't want to do the job anymore then it seems pointless banging him up and making him soldier on, he would just be a liability anyway so why not shove him out the door and let him get on with it.
 
#3
Thanks for that EDV, as far as i am aware there are no extenuating or mitigating circumstances, the scrote will probably just return to civvie strasse and continue incurring Her Majesties displeasure. I have no remit for disciplinary matters and consequently little practical experience, so I was interested in getting the opinions of those who dealt with discipline daily on whether military law was similar to criminal law in that if you commit offence A and are found guilty, you will autmatically recieve a minimum of sentence B. I understand what you are saying about binning the cnut as a liability, bad apples and all that, its just i would like to see this particular bad apple removed from the barrel and hit with a large mallet of a custodial sentence before being returned to the compost bin of 2 UK Civ Div.

Must be my vengeance gland playing up again :twisted:

Perhaps i should have posted this in the Naafi for the hang 'em and burn 'em brigade :D
 

mysteron

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
The sad reality is that once a soldier has gone for 6 months+ then they have got new jobs (or are professional theives, not just of oxygen but also other peoples kit).

The vast majority, nay I will say that all, of the people I have dealt with on an absence of greater than 6 months they will be discharged asap for the following reasons:

1. It is quicker to deal with (less hassle for the SSA).

2. It is cheaper to the crown (a legacy of Neue Arbeit).

3. They are scrotes anyway, so why do we want them dirtying our sheets.

4. Experience shows, once an AWOL, they will do it again.

Hope it answers the question.
 
#5
Here's one for you to show how bad things are;
I know an RLC scrote (17) who is seeing my niece (15) (don't get me strated on that one!).
Went AWOL and has been living at home. He got grassed up to CIVPOL who informed his unit.
That was 6weeks ago, he's still there! Does this mean he's so shoite they don't want the waste of rations back?
Are they waiting for him to return on his own volition to collect his 'Do not rescusitate' sign at the guardroom?
OK so I'm pieced off he's seeing my niece, but has the Army really got it's hands tied so far round its back, they can't do anything?
 

mysteron

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
The problem is that a lot of soldiers who go AWOL obviously don't want to be in the military environment. A growing trend is to call the local civvy doctor claim that they are suffering from stress (Iraq, Afghanistan, Deepcut..) and then they will get F Med 8'd out of the Army, no charge, no discipline, Medical in Confidence therefore does not come up on future employers radar.

Cnuts.
 
#7
Thanks mysteron, I think you covered all the bases there :)

As I said before its just the injustice of the scrote raising two digits to the system and getting away with it.

Oh yes and the revenge gland crying out for sustinance of course :twisted:
 
#9
JB and mysteron, excellent posts, mine was mors of a rant. (stating the obvious) Wonder how much money MoD loses training these wasters that could be spent on other things? Used to be that they took a place someone else could have had, but now they're so desperate for recruits, these scrotes get in anyway. Wonder if these types are noticed at recruitment and allowed to join anyway?
 
#11
mysteron said:
The problem is that a lot of soldiers who go AWOL obviously don't want to be in the military environment. A growing trend is to call the local civvy doctor claim that they are suffering from stress (Iraq, Afghanistan, Deepcut..) and then they will get F Med 8'd out of the Army, no charge, no discipline, Medical in Confidence therefore does not come up on future employers radar.

Cnuts.
Further to mysteron, some of the little ****s will go to the Med Centre, get an answer they don't like. They then go AWOL and see Civvy doctor as you described, almost impossible to prove if they are stressed or not so Civ Doc swallows some C*** and B*** story and off goes AWOL happy as Larry with no come backs!

As the man said cnuts!
 
#12
JuniorBod said:
To be honest engee, although my initial post was a serious question, I think there may be a tad of frustrated rant in there as well.
Probably just me being an old fart, but it just seems pointless to even mention anything regarding discipline during basics. We all know of some little scrote who got away with murder (not literally I hope) 8O but now it seems these scrotes can do what they like. Makes a mockery of the whole thing and must take the shine off, for the rest of you lot trying to get on with your job, and the job of the scrote who isn't there.
 
#13
Of course the cnut now requires a 108 to go with his celebratory beers on friday. Don't suppose in these pink and fluffy times that a one worder will suffice:

'Cnut'
 

mysteron

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
Rants, frustration and anger all round, perfectly acceptable.

What do we do for the future then? Well, I believe that Civvy GPs should not be allowed to see soldiers who are ill. They should be refered to their local unit for treatment. In an emergency, like everyone else, the soldier gets a blue light taxi to the nearest hospital.

In addition, I also feel that if a soldier is discharged with anything but an honourable discharge there should be a tag on their employment history that highlights it, F Med 8 or not... Civil rights groups I'll be hearing from you soon.

As stated in a different thread:

Youth of today: Get a fecking spine, dry your eyes and fecking take responsibility for yourself and your actions.

Rant over. God, that feels better.
 
#15
I admin discharged a chap who'd been AWOL for 5 years until the CIVPOL picked him up for DUI.

We didn't even call the guy back: just sent him the papers and told him to sign on the dotted line.

Saves money, gets the job done.

The best way to avoid AWOLs of all sorts is to have a joined-up, high-profile welfare system so that every soldier knows he or she will get a fair hearing and some sort of help: sometimes there are official means to help them but they just don't know and assume that the Army is a mean and uncaring monolith that will never let them leave its iron grip.

I always made it clear to soldiers that if they wanted out, I'd do everything I could to help them get out.

IF
 

mysteron

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
IdeasFactory said:
I always made it clear to soldiers that if they wanted out, I'd do everything I could to help them get out.

IF
IF, dangerous policy. What happens when your unit is warned off for ops and that all PVRs get frozen and none will be accepted until further notice? A CMO in my unit had the same policy as you until this exact event came round and bit him on the arrse. Soldiers complaining that they can't get away when they were "promised they would be out before christmas" etc etc.

I operate the same policy to let soldiers go, but I just don't tell them that I do it. Some take longer than others to go. The soldiers believe I am doing my best for them (which I believe I am) but also realise that I don't promise them anything.

Subtle but massively important difference, it could mean the difference between just writing their testimonial or an industrial tribunal. It has happened before.
 
#17
engee said:
Are they waiting for him to return on his own volition to collect his 'Do not rescusitate' sign at the guardroom?
It is a unit responsibility to collect TOS soldiers from CIVPOL. This means that the unit have to move like greased lightning as the CIVPOL can't hold the chap indefinitely without charging him. If he's been nabbed for another crime, then fair dos*, but he may still 'do a runner' - recidivism in AWOL cases is phenomenally high.

BTW, I don't blame you for getting annoyed that he's seeing your neice - I wouldn't want a scabrous AWOL cnut contaminating my gene pool either.

*although you can get drawn into a protracted discussion about 'who' gets him 'when' but DSPS(A) do that for you!

Are you shure you didn't grass him up? If so, well done fella!

IF/Mysteron: IMHO IF has the right idea - I hated soldiers thinking they could play the 'I'm getting out if you don't xxxxxx' card on me. I used to take the little cnuts straight to the Docs Spvr and start their paperwork there and then. Amazing how many retracted - not.

But I accept your point Myst - too much fecking litigation around these days, and too many little scrotes with their 'civvy briefs' who reckon they know it all. Cnuts.
 

mysteron

LE
Book Reviewer
#18
DD, believe me when soldiers have tried to hold the Regiment to ransom I have played it straight down the line by firstly stating the MS mission statement. (for those that can't remember it is the one that starts "The needs of the Army come first..") then saying to them that what I was offering in the first place was a lot better than the alternative, (then say something like, "originally, I had you down as driver in MT" or similar).

Watch them turn around and say "oh hadn't thought about it like that" and then accept the original which was the best thing for them in the first place.

If they still don't like it then I invite them to sign off and then continue in the same policy I stated in previous posts. Works for me!!
 
#19
IF, dangerous policy. What happens when your unit is warned off for ops and that all PVRs get frozen and none will be accepted until further notice? A CMO in my unit had the same policy as you until this exact event came round and bit him on the arrse. Soldiers complaining that they can't get away when they were "promised they would be out before christmas" etc etc.
Ah well: I was in a training unit. However, my personal policy has always been "promise nothing except to do your best".

As for PVRS... dangerous things, them. If in doubt, refer to QR(A) 9.414 - a much swifter and less complicated way of binning the dead wood and wasters.

IF
 
#20
We just had a couple of blokes brought back from AWOL. Yes...BROUGHT back. the CO saw fit to send our Provost Sgt and LCpl (in total a whopping 39 stone of rugby playing Provost) to go and knock on the offenders door and ask his mummy if he could come out and play...

Needless to say, the cases were soon ajourned, and much to most peoples disgust, one got a mere 10 days ROPs while the other (and this is most shocking) got sent to join the Regimental Recruiting Team for 2 months.

Admittedly both cases boiled down to welfare issues, but isn't that why we have a welfare system in place?

Is there absolutely no Justice in this world? I know blokes who have been fighting to get something like that for at least a year. Maybe I should suggest he takes an extended NAAFI break?
 

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