Abrams are going to Afghanistan.

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
the canucks have taken to using them to move around in as they have pretty good mine resistance and compare price wise to the new expensive toys. plus they have the love tube to share with any irate locals who take offense.

the USMC have admitted they spent a lot of cash on the up armoured humvee, they cant sell them and it isnt suitable for the ied threat. with no money for new kit they are probably trying to make do.

there are still a 1000 m113's in kuwait just sat there. (at least I think its a thousand - but I know its a lot)
 
#3
Even so, it will be interesting to see how the powers that be decide to use MBT's in a counter insurgency. This will either prove to be a great idea or it will fall flat on it's face. Possible use on CLP's maybe? I can't think of many other uses.
 
#5
The Danish have (had?) some Leopards deployed as part of TFH. I gather canister was particularly effective!
 
#6
I remember the Danes having Leopards while we were out there (more so because a leopard came to drag our WMIK out after getting bogged in for hours during driver training on rsoi). I can see the pro's regarding the use of armour, but in the wrong hands they could upset a hell of a lot of people. I'm sure it's a case of rather having them than not though.
 
#7
Abrams to be deployed in Afghanistan to support operations in Helmand, so there is a future for MBTs

Report: U.S. Sends Battle Tanks to Afghanistan - FoxNews.com
About bloody time too!
MoD are you awake? Or will we continue playing the touchy feely card while counting corpses?
Fighting wars 101: Dominate the ground, etc, then play good guy.
Get CR2 out there and more WR. Escalation? Yes! Win the fight then win the peace(1)

(1)Plus all other clichés natch.
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#8
Their ability as an OP alone is pretty impressive. Plus comms, firepower, and armour (sorry, Armor).

There are large areas of Helmand and beyond that are pretty near perfect Tank country - it would make sense to use them there. Or, like the Danes, as overwatch/OPs, or like the Canucks, proving routes and overwatch. They are pretty versatile things, and 2 will fit in an Antonov easily enough :)
 
#9
It will be interesting to see the arguments about the terrain not being suitable, not wanting th send the wrong message etc etc when in reality we all know the only reason CR2 wasn't and isn't there is COST

Makes the promises from politicians of all colours about giving the troops everything they need seem like yet more bollox wrapped in a flag
 
#10
Their ability as an OP alone is pretty impressive. Plus comms, firepower, and armour (sorry, Armor).

There are large areas of Helmand and beyond that are pretty near perfect Tank country - it would make sense to use them there. Or, like the Danes, as overwatch/OPs, or like the Canucks, proving routes and overwatch. They are pretty versatile things, and 2 will fit in an Antonov easily enough :)
A mate of mine was doing PMC work near the Syrian border a couple of years back and showed me photos one on high ground at an op. It gave them a hell of a lot of firepower should some one get upperty. On the photos it stuck out like a sore thumb though and made a lovely target. Wouldnt like to be sat near it when the iraqis decided to lob mortars at it.
 
#11
I've always wondered this, if nothing else they lend an immediate support role don't they? Rather than wait on fast air or guns, couldn't the patrol/convoy commander tap on the hatch, point out the target and leave them to it?
 
#12
I remember the Danes having Leopards while we were out there (more so because a leopard came to drag our WMIK out after getting bogged in for hours during driver training on rsoi). I can see the pro's regarding the use of armour, but in the wrong hands they could upset a hell of a lot of people. I'm sure it's a case of rather having them than not though.
My bold - Who the Taliban?!
 
#13
Just an educated opinion regarding that armour and counter insurgency tend not to go hand in hand. I'm not dismissing the idea as piss poor, as has been posted ref MBT's being used as mobile OP's seems logical from a broard ISTAR perspective. My only concern (and don't take this the wrong way jumpinjarhead) would be eighteen year old US Marines blowing the shit out of civpop and in doing so losing valuable human int when they start to turn back to the taliban.
There is no such thing as a useless commodity, you just sometimes need to think through it's uses...

Fluffy
 
#14
Also, I'm guessing that if the ao can accommodate them than they will provide one hell of a boost to any FSG...
 
#15
I've always wondered this, if nothing else they lend an immediate support role don't they? Rather than wait on fast air or guns, couldn't the patrol/convoy commander tap on the hatch, point out the target and leave them to it?
If your getting malleted from a building I'd rather one of these put a HEAT round (or whatever its called) through the front door than wait for fast air.
 
#16
Even so, it will be interesting to see how the powers that be decide to use MBT's in a counter insurgency. This will either prove to be a great idea or it will fall flat on it's face. Possible use on CLP's maybe? I can't think of many other uses.
Armour was used very successfully in the Vietnam war. The US army used armoured units in the shock/firepower role to take the fight to the enemy - the "find the b*stards and pile on" role, while the US Marines used them very effectively in the infantry support role, providing direct firepower in the assault and giving covering fire/protection when manoeuvering.

I'm sure that Uncle Sam's Misguided Children will find a good use for them.

Rodney2q
 
#17
The earlier comment about canister rounds being useful is relevant, and I'm sure that they will prove very valuable provided their use is carefully thought out. I hope the USMC talk to the Danes and ask for their experiences with Leopard IIs rather than charging in and upsetting the natives.
 
#18
http://www.arrse.co.uk/rac/151798-thare-future-tanks.html

Welcome to the Tank Museum - Home of the Tank - Has The Sun Set on the Age of The Tank?

DRAC comment

COIN operations in Helmand have demonstrated that tanks can be readily task organised into smaller groupings as both the Canadians and Danes have demonstrated to great effect. Their Leopard 2 tanks are deployed in Kandahar and Helmand respectively and have provided invaluable support to British troops. As the Commanding Officer of the Light Dragoons recently commented, “The physical presence, target suppression, neutralisation and compound breaching capability was immense and important…On the flanks and working the spaces between Gereshk and Sangin the Leopard 2s complemented well the capabilities and psychological effects of the Viking and Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked) mobile operations groups. There is much to be said for the persistent loitering menace of a main battle tank sitting in over-watch; it intimidates insurgents and reassures both coalition forces and local nationals
 
#19
The French TF Lafayette in RC-E has found that even light wheeled tanks like the AMX-10 RCR were very useful. The troops have been reorganized, each troop now consisting of an AMX-10 RCR with a 105 mm cannon, a VAB T-20/13 with a 20 mm cannon and a VAB TOP with a protected Kongsberg Protector .50 cal turret. The mix of armaments has proven very useful and the mere presence of an AMX-10 RCR in overwatch has proved its weight in gold times and again.

 
#20
Armoured vehicles are not suited to the whole of Afghanistan but to dismiss them just because the Russians lost many APCs and MBTs while fighting there would be a mistake. Tanks and APCs were also supposed to be useless in the jungle, in cities etc, etc. When used properly, they have been shown to be an asset in Vietnam, in Falloujah etc.
 
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