About time or diabolical liberty?

#2
Won't make a blind bit of difference to private sector I would've thought. The sole purpose is to save money.

I am not in favour. There really shouldn't be pay differentials for identical labour except time-served increases vs new entrants. It will attract the best to the highest paying regions.

Personally I think the country is totally****ed.

Also this crap Osbourne is talking about how pay is between 10 and 15% higher in public sector for economically depressed regions over private sector. Well why is that Georgey Boy? That's right, it's because a previous Conservative government introduced draconian laws where collective action is a presumed evil and it is extremely easy for a private sector employer to eliminate anybody who attempts to organise for better working conditions.

In fact the worst that can happen to an employer for violating the human right to freedom of association is that they pay a £5k fine!
 
#5
Also this crap Osbourne is talking about how pay is between 10 and 15% higher in public sector for economically depressed regions over private sector. Well why is that Georgey Boy? That's right, it's because a previous Conservative government introduced draconian laws where collective action is a presumed evil and it is extremely easy for a private sector employer to eliminate anybody who attempts to organise for better working conditions.
Or those who made attempts to organise better working conditions got more and more unreasonable as time went on and priced their union members out of the market, there's two ways to look at everything.

And for what it's worth, I'd agree with you with some firms who make massive profits while poorly paying their workers (Tesco) but there's firms which now don't exist whos employees were striking for more money.
 
#6
Or those who made attempts to organise better working conditions got more and more unreasonable as time went on and priced their union members out of the market, there's two ways to look at everything.
I agree with that also. However I would recommend you conduct some research about real terms unskilled and semi-skilled wages since the Thatcher administration. If you want I shall send you some links.
 
#7
Or those who made attempts to organise better working conditions got more and more unreasonable as time went on and priced their union members out of the market, there's two ways to look at everything.

And for what it's worth, I'd agree with you with some firms who make massive profits while poorly paying their workers (Tesco) but there's firms which now don't exist whos employees were striking for more money.
Mong by name...
 
#9
I agree with that also. However I would recommend you conduct some research about real terms unskilled and semi-skilled wages since the Thatcher administration. If you want I shall send you some links.
A lot of what were unskilled jobs don't exist anymore, partly because of time has moved on (not much need to go down t'pit anymore), partly because a lot have moved abroad (factories in China) and partly because trades which would have been accessible to the low skilled now require NVQs or other vocational courses, in some cases they need university education.

I would be interested in reading these links if you want to post them up or PM me.
 
#10
A lot of what were unskilled jobs don't exist anymore, partly because of time has moved on (not much need to go down t'pit anymore), partly because a lot have moved abroad (factories in China) and partly because trades which would have been accessible to the low skilled now require NVQs or other vocational courses, in some cases they need university education.

I would be interested in reading these links if you want to post them up or PM me.
PM sent.
 
#11
Suckdick by name?

Do you have a serious counter point or do you just want to call each other names over internetshire?
OK, I'll bite. You are an arselicker, who believes that by voting Tory you are 'middle class', when in reality all that happens is that you endorse a race to the bottom; charged up by a sense of outrage that some other folk are getting something you're not. Everything you have ever thought or 'learned' came from a stupid newspaper and you, venally, think that parroting that received wisdom makes you clever, because some public school Oxbridge ****** said it first.

FFS - What does "...those who made attempts to organise better working conditions got more and more unreasonable as time went on..." actually mean? They should have left workers in Dickensian slums?

As for "...but there's firms which now don't exist whos employees were striking for more money...". Did you read this before clicking 'Post'?
 
#12
OK, I'll bite. You are an arselicker, who believes that by voting Tory you are 'middle class', when in reality all that happens is that you endorse a race to the bottom; charged up by a sense of outrage that some other folk are getting something you're not. Everything you have ever thought or 'learned' came from a stupid newspaper and you, venally, think that parroting that received wisdom makes you clever, because some public school Oxbridge ****** said it first.

FFS - What does "...those who made attempts to organise better working conditions got more and more unreasonable as time went on..." actually mean? They should have left workers in Dickensian slums?

As for "...but there's firms which now don't exist whos employees were striking for more money...". Did you read this before clicking 'Post'?
I don't vote tory, never have done.

I'm not middle class, I was born in a shit part of nottingham, I still live there.

So your wrong internet angry man, better beat the wife or the dog instead.

Also,

"charged up by a sense of outrage that some other folk are getting something you're not
"

Is an accusation which could easily be levelled at many of the more militant union members.
 
#13
FFS - What does "...those who made attempts to organise better working conditions got more and more unreasonable as time went on..." actually mean? They should have left workers in Dickensian slums?
The crucial shift was between the 1960s and 1970s, where collective action and trade union immunities were used to shield workers from capital deepening (i.e. the purchase of more efficient modes of production). Dickensian slums were long gone by this point and the unions did undermine their own cause in constantly seeking pay rises well above inflation.

As for "...but there's firms which now don't exist whos employees were striking for more money...". Did you read this before clicking 'Post'?
Again, true.
 
E

EScotia

Guest
#14
OK, I'll bite. You are an arselicker, who believes that by voting Tory you are 'middle class', when in reality all that happens is that you endorse a race to the bottom; charged up by a sense of outrage that some other folk are getting something you're not. Everything you have ever thought or 'learned' came from a stupid newspaper and you, venally, think that parroting that received wisdom makes you clever, because some public school Oxbridge ****** said it first.

FFS - What does "...those who made attempts to organise better working conditions got more and more unreasonable as time went on..." actually mean? They should have left workers in Dickensian slums?

As for "...but there's firms which now don't exist whos employees were striking for more money...". Did you read this before clicking 'Post'?
You really are a nasty person aren't you? All you have achieved in your post quoted above is call platoonmong names and try to belittle what you perceive to be his place in society. I've seen much better crap written by the old scary people that used to follow the Labour party when it really was the Labour Party.
 
#15
Workers at Longbridge were striking around the time when the company was making massive losses, I worked in a Rover dealership at the time, the Longbridge staff were getting far more money than we were for doing a less technical job.

The company now no longer exists (at least as Rover).

So that's just one example. Everyone deserves a decent wage for a hard days work, but most of the members voted against the strikes (if I remember correctly), and now no longer have a job, of course there's many different factors, but MG rover are now making cars elsewhere paying a foriegn staff far less, is a job with lower pay better than no job at all.
 
#16
Workers at Longbridge were striking around the time when the company was making massive losses, I worked in a Rover dealership at the time, the Longbridge staff were getting far more money than we were for doing a less technical job.

The company now no longer exists (at least as Rover).

So that's just one example.
Yes I was agreeing with you!
 
#18
oops sorry, it looked like you were quoting suddick and agreeing with him.
No I was agreeing with your quote that he quoted in the quote I quoted of his....
 
#19
Workers at Longbridge were striking around the time when the company was making massive losses, I worked in a Rover dealership at the time, the Longbridge staff were getting far more money than we were for doing a less technical job.
So they were building cars and that was less technical than selling them. Jeez
 
#20
So they were building cars and that was less technical than selling them. Jeez
Erm, no, it's less techinical than working as a mechanic in a dealership, yes mechanics do work in them, that's why your can take it in for a service at, funnily enough, the dealership.

bolting a sump on with an airgun over and over again all day long on a production line is a bit less technical or difficult than diagnosing an electrical fault or an ECU error, or replacing an engine in a mid-engined MG.

And as part of my NVQ, I visited Longbridge and Solihull a few times with Emtec rover group, so I know exactly what they did.

Once again you've made an assumption and been wrong mr angry man.

Incidentally, this further proves my point, I left school with no GCSEs after getting expelled so was "unskilled", the Emtec centre was fairly local to me (behind the Pork Farms factory in Nottingham) so I went for the entrance exam on the off chance I would get in, I passed the technical, English and numeracy exams in the top five, which guaranteed me a place. This opportunity, at least with Rover would no longer exist.

It also helped that I had done my work experience at the dealership and they had agreed they would take me on if I could pass the exams, but how many opportunities are left these days to less than stellar students.
 

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