A400M

Sexton Blake

Old-Salt
now if only you could turn down that very distinctive and very loud harmonic it generates from those huge turboprops that carry for umpteen miles.
oh, and it’s huge RCS......l
I will not dispute the noise an A400 Atlas makes (nor do I know the difference to that of a C130 in comparison) but what does that matter?

That is a serious question which I would like to know your thoughts on.

I have operated/set up more Drop Zones than I care to mention (for C130). Unless you know the run in (direction) and time overhead you can’t hear eff all until almost the last minute!
Have you ever been on a DZ? Are you comparing noise on the pans to that in flight?
If the enemy are using their ears as a defence against TAC AT we are knackered completely unless we fly in Unicorns.
 
Because the C-130 is the size of a gold ball...to Home Chain...does anyone GAF about RCS of in production transports?

If Boeing or Northrop ever get round to doing a big LO transport it's going to be a beauty, with looks only its designer could love.

DAS the important bit just now
Which the RAF A400 has, world class infact.
 
I will not dispute the noise an A400 Atlas makes (nor do I know the difference to that of a C130 in comparison) but what does that matter?

That is a serious question which I would like to know your thoughts on.

I have operated/set up more Drop Zones than I care to mention (for C130). Unless you know the run in (direction) and time overhead you can’t hear eff all until almost the last minute!
Have you ever been on a DZ? Are you comparing noise on the pans to that in flight?
If the enemy are using their ears as a defence against TAC AT we are knackered completely unless we fly in Unicorns.
we regularly get C-130’s and A400’s going over, The A400 is very loud, very distinctive, you can hear it long before a C-130, and long after it. As for RCS, 4 huge props and a huge T tail give an RCS no DAS can hide.
It’s what happens when the French decide a turbofan powered strategic transport shall be magically changed into a tactical one by fitting props.
and so many of the A400’s issues stem from that decision.
 

Sexton Blake

Old-Salt
we regularly get C-130’s and A400’s going over, The A400 is very loud, very distinctive, you can hear it long before a C-130, and long after it. As for RCS, 4 huge props and a huge T tail give an RCS no DAS can hide.
It’s what happens when the French decide a turbofan powered strategic transport shall be magically changed into a tactical one by fitting props.
and so many of the A400’s issues stem from that decision.
So you have never been on a TAC AT DZ then (as I suspected).

You would not know the noise made by a 16 ‘ship’ of C130s that we would regularly employ for a BG insertion of which I had the privilege of running the DZ for on more than one occasion. That was possibly louder than how many Atlas ac? Are CH47s louder when inserting on an LZ? How many are needed to achieve the equivalent noise of how many Atlas?

No need to reply. As I previously stated, unless the EF know what time, where and the direction you are coming from the noise makes little difference to the tactical planning and balance of risk. We don’t normally have to worry about vast swathes of wide awake EF all listening 24 hours a day across the entire potential battlefield (or DZ) ready with instant AA systems to thwart our plans

Your views are valid to a point and you make it clear you don’t ‘like’ the A400. Fine with that, but the reality of inserting men and eqpt by airdrop is best left to those who have experience and knowledge in these matters. Having 1 or 16 ‘noisy’ aeroplanes coming into a DZ which takes into account the EF disposition among other factors is not a problem.

Feel free to have the last word.
 
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.....yes, but the A400 is very loud.
I live near Lyneham. Used to C130s and even though it's no longer active we get single or three plane flights low and high. We also get A400's and C17s. Many civilian aircraft also. The A400 really draws attention to itself as it drones overhead. You can hear it some time before it arrives compared to other aircraft.
 

Sexton Blake

Old-Salt
.....yes, but the A400 is very loud.
I live near Lyneham. Used to C130s and even though it's no longer active we get single or three plane flights low and high. We also get A400's and C17s. Many civilian aircraft also. The A400 really draws attention to itself as it drones overhead. You can hear it some time before it arrives compared to other aircraft.
Ian525,

Thank you. Again, I am not disputing the noise an Atlas makes just the fact that it does not make that much difference when employed in the airdrop role (and possibly airland as well).

Kind Rgds
 
.....yes, but the A400 is very loud.
I live near Lyneham. Used to C130s and even though it's no longer active we get single or three plane flights low and high. We also get A400's and C17s. Many civilian aircraft also. The A400 really draws attention to itself as it drones overhead. You can hear it some time before it arrives compared to other aircraft.
Each to their own - I live on a DZ boundary and recently have had an A400 doing half a dozen circuits a day doing AD. It’s extraordinarily quiet in my opinion, no louder than a C130 and certainly quieter than a CH47 which you hear from miles away.
 
Each to their own - I live on a DZ boundary and recently have had an A400 doing half a dozen circuits a day doing AD. It’s extraordinarily quiet in my opinion, no louder than a C130 and certainly quieter than a CH47 which you hear from miles away.
Acoustics is a strange thing.

As an aside, we used to lay in bed and isten to c130 engine runs on a sunday morning and find it strangely comforting. Our neighbours used to moan like hell.
 
Ian525,

Thank you. Again, I am not disputing the noise an Atlas makes just the fact that it does not make that much difference when employed in the airdrop role (and possibly airland as well).

Kind Rgds
Thank you, fair point and I am an outsider looking in on that area of expertise
 
Each to their own - I live on a DZ boundary and recently have had an A400 doing half a dozen circuits a day doing AD. It’s extraordinarily quiet in my opinion, no louder than a C130 and certainly quieter than a CH47 which you hear from miles away.
I live next to Blagnac - consequently im regularly subjected to test flights of the Airbus portfolio conducting circuits at low level above my house.

Like yourself ive often argued the A400M is remarkably quiet no worse than a C130 - which as youve noted at odds with others opinions.

However one came over the other day and i thought Feck me that is loud.

Perhaps the frequency has some odd acoustic properties eg the sound isnt omni directional in terms of volume - so if youre at anything but angle A its ok at Angle A its horriffic.
 
I live next to Blagnac - consequently im regularly subjected to test flights of the Airbus portfolio conducting circuits at low level above my house.

Like yourself ive often argued the A400M is remarkably quiet no worse than a C130 - which as youve noted at odds with others opinions.

However one came over the other day and i thought Feck me that is loud.

Perhaps the frequency has some odd acoustic properties eg the sound isnt omni directional in terms of volume - so if youre at anything but angle A its ok at Angle A its horriffic.
..... it is strange isn't it. I've never heard the quiet version just the horrendous drone and wonder what it is like inside.
 
And I replied that my old man had been on ex in 68 and they were doing drops. There may even be some old slides about. Herc ramped up quite quickly, the best source on here in respect of SF jumps would be @Alec_Lomas mind.
From a historical perspective, we used the C-130 sparingly in the early months 1968. It was more from a tasking priority of it being used for other jobs.
Ab initio para training was primarily serviced by the Argosy and Andover airframes. Towards the end of 1968, the C-130 became very much to the forefront of static-line training.

Interestingly, the airframe chosen for an operational f/fall insertion on to a jebel location the Musandam peninsula was the Andover, with the build up training descents from the same airframe in 1970. There were C-130's in service, but they were being prioritised for equipment and personnel deliveries into Salalah air strip with a very practised fast turn around to Mazierah (sp?)
 
As an aside, we used to lay in bed and isten to c130 engine runs on a sunday morning and find it strangely comforting. Our neighbours used to moan like hell.
I love hearing the Wokkas come over, the neighbours hate the things. I must admit interesting as they are to see the noise when Them are out playing with the ospreys is horrendous.
 
Thank you for your reply.

But yes, as you say, the C130 ‘ramped up quite quickly’ but it still took many years to achieve the full suite of airdrop capabilities we wanted it to fulfill.
funny, I could have sworn we bought a fully developed, proven, in widespread use tactical transport in the mid 60’s that delivered the full range of capabilities stated on the tin.

We didnt have to ‘achieve’ anything, it did everything it was supposed to do.
 
funny, I could have sworn we bought a fully developed, proven, in widespread use tactical transport in the mid 60’s that delivered the full range of capabilities stated on the tin.

We didnt have to ‘achieve’ anything, it did everything it was supposed to do.
May I refer my learned colleague to th A400M thread.....oops!
 

Sexton Blake

Old-Salt
funny, I could have sworn we bought a fully developed, proven, in widespread use tactical transport in the mid 60’s that delivered the full range of capabilities stated on the tin.

We didnt have to ‘achieve’ anything, it did everything it was supposed to do.
To a certain degree yes, but as new eqpt is procured such as bigger vehicles, boats, and other military paraphernalia (as well as new TTPs and man carrying parachutes) we had to continually run trials and evaluation on the C130s. So no, we did very much 'have to achieve' things with it. Unless my 36 years of being involved in that sphere was a dream.

As I stated earlier I was part of a team conducting airdrop trials and new capabilities right up to 2013. The same is of the C130J now (we are still doing new stuff with it) and therefore the Atlas now and for ever more.

I do appreciate your views and comments and I will always defer to greater KSE from others but if you think that the Atlas was going to rock up and do straight away the level of Cap that it took the C130s decades to achieve that would be very naive of you.

However, If you think we have been sold a dummy by some very astute businessman then that is a different angle you can approach!
 
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From a historical perspective, we used the C-130 sparingly in the early months 1968. It was more from a tasking priority of it being used for other jobs.
Ab initio para training was primarily serviced by the Argosy and Andover airframes. Towards the end of 1968, the C-130 became very much to the forefront of static-line training.

Interestingly, the airframe chosen for an operational f/fall insertion on to a jebel location the Musandam peninsula was the Andover, with the build up training descents from the same airframe in 1970. There were C-130's in service, but they were being prioritised for equipment and personnel deliveries into Salalah air strip with a very practised fast turn around to Mazierah (sp?)
Ah, the Musandam Peninsula...

Favoured planning exercise for the Camberley COIN phase of the early ‘90s!
 
To a certain degree yes, but as new eqpt is procured such as bigger vehicles, boats, and other military paraphernalia (as well as new TTPs and man carrying parachutes) we had to continually run trials and evaluation on the C130s. So no, we did very much 'have to achieve' things with it. Unless my 36 years of being involved in that sphere was a dream.

As I stated earlier I was part of a team conducting airdrop trials and new capabilities right up to 2013. The same is of the C130J now (we are still doing new stuff with it) and therefore the Atlas now and for ever more.

I do appreciate your views and comments and I will always defer to greater KSE from others but if you think that the Atlas was going to rock up and do straight away the level of Cap that it took the C130s decades to achieve that would be very naive of you.

However, If you think we have been sold a dummy by some very astute businessman then that is a different angle you can approach!
A400M failed to meet most of it’s Stated KURs and the ones it never can, were simply written out of a new revised contract.

it does not do what was promised.

would you buy a 1 Tonne van, then when you go to pick it up, accept it when told, it’s going to cost yiu a lot more than you signed for, the side loading doors don’t work properly for passengers, it’s only able to carry 3/4 of a tonne, it’s heavier than promised, it doesn’t have the range you were promised, And the cab heater doesnt work, but we’ve put a blanket in the back to keep your legs warm.
 

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