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A400M

@Sexton Blake
Ah, The reason why I say it's the last is purely because of size. As a hauler of goods, I'd pick it over C130. Agreed that height, speed and range are better and that it took quite some time to get C130 to a point where RAF were happy to chuck people out of it. Hopefully we'll get our paras going out of both doors soon.
Imho the days of stealthy landings in the middle of nowhere unnoticed are drawing to a close. The proliferation of radios and sat phones mean the oppo can get wind of you quickly and the element of surprise is gone. Appreciate this is but one facet of the SF spectrum as it were. That said, if you want a fast mobile force with associated transport inserted with speed and are willing to forgo some of the stealth , then yes, A400.
ref maritime

I mostly agree for mass (Bn+) jumps in the developed world. For SF and Coy to Bn Op, especially in third world areas, the option is still very useful.
Once the last issues are ironed out, l am confident we will see regular exercises where parachute Coys will be dropped directly from France to DZs in either Africa, Guyana or la Réunion island.
 
Hence why the requirement for MC130J is there, is approved along with MH47G.

The A400 in RAF service is coming on leaps and bounds, availability is impressive.
If you want a sizeable load delivered we have C17.

You see the issue?
Have the MC130J and the MH47G actually been ordered? Or is it just a wish list addressed to Santa, Lapland every December?
 
Have the MC130J and the MH47G actually been ordered? Or is it just a wish list addressed to Santa, Lapland every December?
MH47G has gone through the foreign military sales, awaiting MH130J to follow.
 
I respect your view and am not wanting to commence a pi**ing contest but I, on the other hand, would state that an A400M Atlas is the first aircraft I would use for delivering (certain aspects) of SF.

Mindful of OPSEC you cannot fit any, I repeat any, of the size of maritime craft and following troops into RW for airdrops; you need FW for that. Atlas outstrips the C130J for range, height and duration and RW will not do the 'lift' or delivery of the aforementioned.

What some folk on here also forget (or are not aware of) is that the UK C130s (K or J models) did not rock up in the RAF inventory one day all totally capable of delivering SF/PARA cap right from the get go. It took years and years of trials and development to get there. The same goes with Atlas, it needs time to get to the point that it will hopefully prove itself to be a great SF/PARA delivery aircraft.

I standby for incoming reasoned debate.

ETA the highlighted bit.
AFAIK the Herc was doing drops quite quickly after entering service, a different world then of course but my old man was on an Ex in Malaya 1968 which involved drops, not for him mind. So not sure where you're getting your info from
 
AFAIK the Herc was doing drops quite quickly after entering service, a different world then of course but my old man was on an Ex in Malaya 1968 which involved drops, not for him mind. So not sure where you're getting your info from
Yes but hadn't the US been dropping complete Airborne Divisions out of them since the late fifties/early sixties? Its not like they were a new aircraft like the A400.
 

Sexton Blake

War Hero
AFAIK the Herc was doing drops quite quickly after entering service, a different world then of course but my old man was on an Ex in Malaya 1968 which involved drops, not for him mind. So not sure where you're getting your info from
I am getting my info from a background of 36 years of airdrop experience. Commencing circa mid 80s up to 2019.

I agree with you that the C130 was conducting airdrops from the start, my points regarding A400, and in part the good old C130 remain the same.

May I politely ask where your info comes from?
 

Sexton Blake

War Hero
@Sexton Blake
Ah, The reason why I say it's the last is purely because of size. As a hauler of goods, I'd pick it over C130. Agreed that height, speed and range are better and that it took quite some time to get C130 to a point where RAF were happy to chuck people out of it. Hopefully we'll get our paras going out of both doors soon.
Imho the days of stealthy landings in the middle of nowhere unnoticed are drawing to a close. The proliferation of radios and sat phones mean the oppo can get wind of you quickly and the element of surprise is gone. Appreciate this is but one facet of the SF spectrum as it were. That said, if you want a fast mobile force with associated transport inserted with speed and are willing to forgo some of the stealth , then yes, A400.
ref maritime
Thank you, I very much appreciate your reply and view point. All very valid.

Rgds
 
I respect your view and am not wanting to commence a pi**ing contest but I, on the other hand, would state that an A400M Atlas is the first aircraft I would use for delivering (certain aspects) of SF.

Mindful of OPSEC you cannot fit any, I repeat any, of the size of maritime craft and following troops into RW for airdrops; you need FW for that. Atlas outstrips the C130J for range, height and duration and RW will not do the 'lift' or delivery of the aforementioned.

What some folk on here also forget (or are not aware of) is that the UK C130s (K or J models) did not rock up in the RAF inventory one day all totally capable of delivering SF/PARA cap right from the get go. It took years and years of trials and development to get there. The same goes with Atlas, it needs time to get to the point that it will hopefully prove itself to be a great SF/PARA delivery aircraft.

I standby for incoming reasoned debate.

ETA the highlighted bit.

now if only you could turn down that very distinctive and very loud harmonic it generates from those huge turboprops that carry for umpteen miles.
oh, and it’s huge RCS......l
 
Yes but hadn't the US been dropping complete Airborne Divisions out of them since the late fifties/early sixties? Its not like they were a new aircraft like the A400.
C17?
I am getting my info from a background of 36 years of airdrop experience. Commencing circa mid 80s up to 2019.

I agree with you that the C130 was conducting airdrops from the start, my points regarding A400, and in part the good old C130 remain the same.

May I politely ask where your info comes from?
You said
What some folk on here also forget (or are not aware of) is that the UK C130s (K or J models) did not rock up in the RAF inventory one day all totally capable of delivering SF/PARA cap right from the get go.
And I replied that my old man had been on ex in 68 and they were doing drops. There may even be some old slides about. Herc ramped up quite quickly, the best source on here in respect of SF jumps would be @Alec_Lomas mind.

A400 not close for us yet is it?

My experience was on the bombhead side in real AD, Air Defence ;-) and then mud moving and general aviation for just under 20 years. I've defended the A400 a few times on here but it remains the aircraft the RAF didn't really want and they're making the best of it.
 

Sexton Blake

War Hero
now if only you could turn down that very distinctive and very loud harmonic it generates from those huge turboprops that carry for umpteen miles.
oh, and it’s huge RCS......l
RCS please?
 
Radar Cross Section = Turd on a billiard table.
Because the C-130 is the size of a gold ball...to Home Chain...does anyone GAF about RCS of in production transports?

If Boeing or Northrop ever get round to doing a big LO transport it's going to be a beauty, with looks only its designer could love.

DAS the important bit just now
 

Sexton Blake

War Hero
C17?
You said

And I replied that my old man had been on ex in 68 and they were doing drops. There may even be some old slides about. Herc ramped up quite quickly, the best source on here in respect of SF jumps would be @Alec_Lomas mind.

A400 not close for us yet is it?

My experience was on the bombhead side in real AD, Air Defence ;-) and then mud moving and general aviation for just under 20 years. I've defended the A400 a few times on here but it remains the aircraft the RAF didn't really want and they're making the best of it.
Thank you for your reply.

But yes, as you say, the C130 ‘ramped up quite quickly’ but it still took many years to achieve the full suite of airdrop capabilities we wanted it to fulfill. I was working on C130K airdrop capability’s up to its retirement in 2013! The list was never ending!
I am aware of the poster you mention (A Lomax) and perhaps me and him have crossed paths together in the past but not sure of relevance in my earlier post.
The UK C130 took years and years to continue to address changes in airdrop requirements and the A400 will be no different.
Therefore I agree with you that the A400 is not ‘close to us yet’ but it hopefully it will do and better in time. I also agree with you that the RAF are making the best of it and so best wishes to them.
 

Sexton Blake

War Hero

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