A400M

South Africa's Denel has reached an agreement with Airbus to return it's workshare which date back to when South Africa had planned to procure eight A400Ms.

That order was cancelled in 2009 due to Programme delays and Airbus subsequently reimbursed pre-delivery payments to ARMSCOR. The article appears to suggest that Denel is in financial trouble and was struggling to meet its commitments to Airbus.

Regards,
MM
Denel is in deep financial trouble and were having difficulty paying salaries and suppliers. There are allegations that one of the major sources of their problems relate to corruption involving the terms of contracts granted to people with links to senior South African government officials and various other "irregular expenditures".

They are now in a process of restructuring, closing down some of the questionable business relationships, and generally getting themselves back into shape. Denel is state owned, and similar problems reportedly extend to many other state owned enterprises.

I haven't heard anything questionable about the A400 contract itself, but it appears to be collateral damage as they sell off or close down anything not considered to be a core asset.
 
Denel is in deep financial trouble and were having difficulty paying salaries and suppliers. There are allegations that one of the major sources of their problems relate to corruption involving the terms of contracts granted to people with links to senior South African government officials and various other "irregular expenditures".

They are now in a process of restructuring, closing down some of the questionable business relationships, and generally getting themselves back into shape. Denel is state owned, and similar problems reportedly extend to many other state owned enterprises.

I haven't heard anything questionable about the A400 contract itself, but it appears to be collateral damage as they sell off or close down anything not considered to be a core asset.
It's the fault of the white colonials.......






Again
 
A somewhat unexpected turn of events related to the rumoured Indonesia purchase of 5 x A400Ms. Despite Airbus claims that an order was imminent, the Indonesian AF has still not committed to a firm order.

However, it appears that the state run Indonesian Trading Company may procure 2 of these aircraft to allow the movement of commercial goods across the enormous Indonesian archipelago and into small island strips. This would help ease disparities in the prices of goods in different islands and communities. Apparently, the Indonesian AF will supply the aircrew for this operation.

Meanwhile, Indonesian oil company Pertamina is also considering buying a single A400M, presumably from the 5 provisionally identified for the Indonesian AF (which were themselves unwanted Luftwaffe airframes) for use on a commercial and Humanitarian Aid Disaster Relief (HADR) role.

It'll be interesting to see whether any of these aircraft finally end up in Indonesian military service.

Regards,
MM
 
A somewhat unexpected turn of events related to the rumoured Indonesia purchase of 5 x A400Ms. Despite Airbus claims that an order was imminent, the Indonesian AF has still not committed to a firm order.

However, it appears that the state run Indonesian Trading Company may procure 2 of these aircraft to allow the movement of commercial goods across the enormous Indonesian archipelago and into small island strips. This would help ease disparities in the prices of goods in different islands and communities. Apparently, the Indonesian AF will supply the aircrew for this operation . . .

It'll be interesting to see whether any of these aircraft finally end up in Indonesian military service.

Regards,
MM
My goodness . . . .

"The air force statement does not make clear why the A400M, which is optimised for military usage, is the best option for airfreight services between the two parts of the country. Irrespective of its impressive performance characteristics, particularly its ability to operate from rough airstrips and its cargo ramp, used cargo aircraft could be obtained on the open market for far less money.

French budget documents from 2013 suggest an A400M unit cost of €152 million ($187 million).

Older Boeing 747 freighters, however, can be obtained for as little as $1.8 million for a used 747-200F, or $24 million for a used 747-400F.

There are 41 x 747 freighters listed as being in storage".
 
My goodness . . . .

"The air force statement does not make clear why the A400M, which is optimised for military usage, is the best option for airfreight services between the two parts of the country. Irrespective of its impressive performance characteristics, particularly its ability to operate from rough airstrips and its cargo ramp, used cargo aircraft could be obtained on the open market for far less money.

French budget documents from 2013 suggest an A400M unit cost of €152 million ($187 million).

Older Boeing 747 freighters, however, can be obtained for as little as $1.8 million for a used 747-200F, or $24 million for a used 747-400F.

There are 41 x 747 freighters listed as being in storage".

Follow the numbered Swiss bank accounts
 
My goodness . . . .

"The air force statement does not make clear why the A400M, which is optimised for military usage, is the best option for airfreight services between the two parts of the country. Irrespective of its impressive performance characteristics, particularly its ability to operate from rough airstrips and its cargo ramp, used cargo aircraft could be obtained on the open market for far less money.

French budget documents from 2013 suggest an A400M unit cost of €152 million ($187 million).

Older Boeing 747 freighters, however, can be obtained for as little as $1.8 million for a used 747-200F, or $24 million for a used 747-400F.

There are 41 x 747 freighters listed as being in storage".
B747s are not known for their short field or natural surface performance though, are they? Military tactical transports (which A400M may eventually become) are designed for the sort of minimal airstrip much of remote Indonesia is served by. The RAF has trialled A400M on grass and sand strips and is developing the capability for which it was intended (admittedly slower than Airbus would hope).
 
B747s are not known for their short field or natural surface performance though, are they? Military tactical transports (which A400M may eventually become) are designed for the sort of minimal airstrip much of remote Indonesia is served by...
In some respects, the A400M is an ideal (if very expensive) solution to Indonesian domestic requirements.

Regards,
MM
 
B747s are not known for their short field or natural surface performance though, are they? Military tactical transports (which A400M may eventually become) are designed for the sort of minimal airstrip much of remote Indonesia is served by. The RAF has trialled A400M on grass and sand strips and is developing the capability for which it was intended (admittedly slower than Airbus would hope).

They struggle to operate the the utterly proven and reliable as the day is long C-130 - NFC they’d manage the A400M which only the RAF seems to have a handle on.
 
They struggle to operate the the utterly proven and reliable as the day is long C-130 - NFC they’d manage the A400M which only the RAF seems to have a handle on.
True enough, but it is a more suitable airframe than a 747. The C130 would seem a simpler solution but perhaps Airbus will help out with the tricky bits in order to make the deal work and show themselves to be the good guys!
 
Seems like the A400M *might* be coming good.

Indonesian oil company to buy A400M transport aircraft

While several types of military airlifters were used, the A400Ms showed their worth – being able to cross the Atlantic more quickly than the C-130 Hercules aircraft that also were sent to the region, while carrying a useful load say the MoD

And:

Once in the Caribbean, the A400Ms proved extraordinarily effective with their ability to operate from shorter airfields, performing inter-island flights where they could carry nearly three times as much cargo as the C-130

I can't judge how much of this is BS but perhaps the beast has matured into a useful transport.
 
True enough, but it is a more suitable airframe than a 747. The C130 would seem a simpler solution but perhaps Airbus will help out with the tricky bits in order to make the deal work and show themselves to be the good guys!
I was thinking the same thing - plenty of C130s (new and used) knocking about and for far less, with more rough and small strip capabilities? Don't quote me on the exact figures - just a hunch.
 
I was thinking the same thing - plenty of C130s (new and used) knocking about and for far less, with more rough and small strip capabilities? Don't quote me on the exact figures - just a hunch.
You have to also look at fuel, crew, and maintenance costs. Even if you got some planes for free, if they cost more per ton of cargo to operate they may be more expensive in the long run.

I'm not making any predictions on this, just pointing out that you would need a detailed cost analysis using data that we don't have access to before coming to any conclusions.
 
Seems like the A400M *might* be coming good.

Indonesian oil company to buy A400M transport aircraft

While several types of military airlifters were used, the A400Ms showed their worth – being able to cross the Atlantic more quickly than the C-130 Hercules aircraft that also were sent to the region, while carrying a useful load say the MoD

And:

Once in the Caribbean, the A400Ms proved extraordinarily effective with their ability to operate from shorter airfields, performing inter-island flights where they could carry nearly three times as much cargo as the C-130

I can't judge how much of this is BS but perhaps the beast has matured into a useful transport.
It was always going to be a decent strategic asset for route tasks so I think the comments can best be described as 'glass half-full.' They also rather miss the point that a C-17 can still carry far more, far further and quicker while still retaining a creditable short-field capability itself.

Everyone I know believe that we'd have been better off with more C-17s and C-130Js and not procuring A400M.

The fact that the A400M has failed to attract any additional sales beyond those for manufacturing nations (Malaysian and Indonesian aircraft are taken from unwanted European orders) is also telling, as is the decision to significantly reduce production so soon. Ultimately, Airbus fundamentally misread military AT requirements with A400M just as they did the airline needs with A380.

I would expect the KC-390 and C-130J to continue outselling A400M for good reason.

Regards,
MM
 
How does the A400 compare to the C130J ?

The whole problem of course being C17 production has ceased .... could it be reopened??? .... have the USAF got any in the boneyard that could be refurbished???
 
How does the A400 compare to the C130J ?...
Apples and oranges.

The whole problem of course being C17 production has ceased .... could it be reopened??? .... have the USAF got any in the boneyard that could be refurbished???
No and I don't believe there are any second hand C-17s yet available.

We're stuck with A400M and will need to make the most of it.

Regards,
MM
 
True enough, but it is a more suitable airframe than a 747. The C130 would seem a simpler solution but perhaps Airbus will help out with the tricky bits in order to make the deal work and show themselves to be the good guys!

Airbus seem to be staking their remaining hopes on selling some A400’s to 3rd world countries as vanity aircraft.

All going to come to nought now Boeing has put its full commercial muscle behind the KC-390
 
They struggle to operate the the utterly proven and reliable as the day is long C-130 - NFC they’d manage the A400M which only the RAF seems to have a handle on.
Indonesia was very western-oriented in its military procurement for decades, buying a large proportion of its stuff from the US and the UK.

However in the 90s Indonesia was slapped with an embargo in the US over its role in East Timor, it also suffered from a high-profile campaign to try to get Britain to ban the sale of BAe Hawks, including a famous criminal case when activists broke in and damaged a Hawk waiting for delivery to Indonesia.

For a long time much of Indonesia's Hercules fleet was grounded as a result of a lack of spare parts. After the lifting of the embargo things improved and indeed I think the Indonesians were gifted several used Hercules by Australia which certainly helped.

But nonetheless the memory of the embargo burned deep in the Indonesian psyche. The Indonesians never quite forgave the US and UK for what they saw as their betrayal of one of their soundest allies in the region and vowed to source its equipment from more diverse, and perhaps less punctilious, suppliers in the future.

Thus in recent years Indonesia has bought Russian Sukhois, Korean submarines, Italian helicopters etc. I don't know if this is why the Indonesians would be looking to purchase Airbus transports, but it might be an underlying factor.
 
Indonesia was very western-oriented in its military procurement for decades, buying a large proportion of its stuff from the US and the UK.

However in the 90s Indonesia was slapped with an embargo in the US over its role in East Timor, it also suffered from a high-profile campaign to try to get Britain to ban the sale of BAe Hawks, including a famous criminal case when activists broke in and damaged a Hawk waiting for delivery to Indonesia.

For a long time much of Indonesia's Hercules fleet was grounded as a result of a lack of spare parts. After the lifting of the embargo things improved and indeed I think the Indonesians were gifted several used Hercules by Australia which certainly helped.

But nonetheless the memory of the embargo burned deep in the Indonesian psyche. The Indonesians never quite forgave the US and UK for what they saw as their betrayal of one of their soundest allies in the region and vowed to source its equipment from more diverse, and perhaps less punctilious, suppliers in the future.

Thus in recent years Indonesia has bought Russian Sukhois, Korean submarines, Italian helicopters etc. I don't know if this is why the Indonesians would be looking to purchase Airbus transports, but it might be an underlying factor.

Makes far more sense for them to buy something cheap, durable, and Russian.
The A400 is simply too complex and high tech. It’s the Maclaren F1 of the tactical transport world, in a market that just wants an aviation version of the Toyoya Hilux.

Behind this ‘sale’ will be France as usual, and as usual, bribing 3rd world countries to buy far too high tech French equipment,

The A400M is a total wanking disaster to quite a politician crappie, and at the end of the production run, nearly half the planes built won’t be wanted by the launch partners, won’t be wanted by the booming airlifter market, and will probably go straight to scrap..
 

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