Discussion in 'Royal Air Force' started by armchair_jihad, Mar 10, 2009.

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  1. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/engineering/article5879659.ece

    The UK aside none of the other participating Countries have either the cash or the operational need anymore

    Spain is broke and is looking at 20% unemployment next year, Turkey has had to go to the IMF, Belguim and luxemborg are at the knackers yard, Germany's economy is imploding and they are expected to bail out the whole Eurozone, South Africa and Malaysia?!, only France will probably stick with it until they hear about the new price and delivery date.
  2. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

    Brinkmanship, who is going to blink first

    There is simply no way this project is going to be cancelled and I suspect an under the table deal will be conncocted to make sure it stays intact, some horse trading on delivery dates and costs is inevitable and EADS is going to have to swallow some shite, despite what they say
  3. Not in these economic times old love I bet you fifty quid to Holidays for Heroes that on the 2nd of April at least half the partners have pulled out and its kicked into the long grass for ever.
  4. so that means a few more C-17's and extra C-130j's to fulfil lift requirment then?

    good. thats a better option for the UK, (and mybe a few of the C-27j spartans would be a good idea too?)
  5. we are the only people involved who actually need something yesterday so hopefully we will buy American on April the 6th
  6. What will we have instead then? Septic or Ruskie? I can bet Boeing shares are on the rise.
  7. All the Yanks or / and the Ivans have to do is bundle it all up as a PFI and Broon will sign off on it
  8. When this project kicked off EADS made a lot of noise about this being a commercial contract with the usual penalty clauses which would be delivered to time. Hubris indeed. They cannot wriggle out of paying for their inability to deliver, or stop their customers from walking away as per the contract.

    Now in the commercial world airliners do run late and suppliers do make deals with customers as a result, so it's not impossible to save this project. However, one suspects that most of the customers will see this as a good excuse to save a few quid. Short sighted maybe, but that's the name of the game these days.

    In fact, the only customer who has a problem is the UK. We desperately need airlift and losing the A400 kicks out the central plank of our strategy. I look forward to the usual suspects telling us how we can't put alternatives in place quickly as it's all too difficult, they work very hard and it's not as if there's a war on after all.
  9. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

    You may have seen my previous posts on the A400, I am actually a firm believer and the mantra that more C17's and C130J's kind of misses the point completely.

    Have a read here for a reasonable rundown


    There is also no doubt that the economic climate means that Governments will get a battering if they start cancelling native projects which have a significant job element and buying stuff from overseas which results in zero tax income and zero jobs (which also has of course tax income attached). If they cancel it the people who once contributed now become yet another drain in the form of unemployment benefits.

    Anyone who thinks this is about an aircraft are wrong, it politics writ large
  10. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    You're not talking about the RAF per chance? ;)
  11. On the other hand....


    07:54 GMT, March 10, 2009 During today's press conference, EADS managers said to defpro.com that a termination of the A400M military transport aircraft programme is very unlikely.

    As defpro reported last month, the French Senate unveiled a report entitled “L'Airbus militaire A400M sur le ‘chemin critique’ de l'Europe de la défense” – “The A400M Military Airbus on the critical path for European defense”, in which it was said that the participating nations in a collective or individual decision have the legal right to abandon the programme and demand their funding payments be returned if the first flight is delayed by more than 14 months. This deadline is to expire 1 April 2009.

    An EADS manager who declines to be identified however said to defpro.com that a termination of the programme may only be obtained with a “unanimous mandate” of all launch nations. This make a termination very unlikely, the manager said.

    Theoretically, a cancellation of the A400M contract by OCCAR would trigger reimbursement of the pre-delivery payments and other payments received from OCCAR. The total amount is approximately €5.7 billion. Separately, each of the launch nations may claim cancellation of those individual aircraft which would be substantially delayed.

    During the press conference, Louis Gallois, CEO of EADS confirmed that flight tests with the A400M TP400-D6 engine, which is fitted to a modified C-130 aircraft, have been successful so far. Gallois said that three flights have been carried out with very positive results.

    Gallois also confirmed that the problem is not the engine itself but rather its implementation into the aircraft. "The engine is working very well on the flight test bed."

    "The real challenge is the computer which controls the engine as well as the entire propulsion system" he said. "All now depends on the Full Authority Digital Engine Controls (FADEC) for the EPI TP400-D6 turboprop engines, this is the main reason we are late."

    Gallois also said that the date of the A400M first flight will be essential for the company, since it is committed to deliver the first aircraft exactly three years after this first flight. The time schedule of the first flight depends on the availability and clearance FADEC, he said.

    The CEO pointed out those critical parts of the aircraft includes the Flight Management System (FMS), Military Mission Management System (MMMS) and some other systems which are all not on Airbus responsibility but rather other large suppliers including Sagem, Thales, and Rheinmetall.

    Gallois also said that the company is negotiating with the customers nations on the time schedule of the production line as well as on the different stand-ups of the aircraft. "During these negotiations France and Germany have declared they remain committed to the programme," Gallois said.
  12. Not disputing that but the worse global economic crisis since the 30's suspends the politics as usual approach, the EU Countries will regard saving the Euro and themselves this year as the real project. Not a hundred odd military transports only thirty or so of which will ever smell powder.
  13. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

    True, but the build programme is spread across many countries and supports many jobs and don't forget the hubris and pride. We bin this off and we hand the market to the US
  14. Only the French will try to keep it alive as fantassin has illustrated, the real jobs are with Airbus which has enough trouble with the strengh of the dollar, cancelled orders from China (all of them) and Obhama saying no to the refueling deal. The A400M is not core Airbus/EDS business and will be last on the list.

    As I said 50 quid to H4H on the 2nd of April - will you take my wager Sir?
  15. RE: The EADS manager- he would say that, wouldn't he?

    Why we insist on a long drawn out and highly expensive program to develop an aircraft marginally more useful than we could buy off the shelf for much less is a question I have yet to find a satisfactory answer to. So far as I can tell, it's the usual jobs-for-people approach.