A400M Crashes in Spain (09/05/15)

#42
A plane I worked on lost both engines on final approach due to flying into a massive flock of starlings (several 10.000 of them acc. to the captain, to whom I talked afterwards). The captain still managed to smash it onto the runway (instead of crashing it into a town behind), but he drove both main gears through the wings. Everybody walked away with light injuries. After the crash they counted more than 200 bird impacts on the fuselage and the wings, and both engines were clogged up with birds.
From my limited German the first line states three out of four engines lost power on take-off.
 
#44
This is why take offs, like landings, are critical phases of flight. A multiple birdstrike taking out several engines can also happen on take off.
Geese and Hudson River spring to mind. Mind you hitting a goose must be the worst case scenario.
 
#47
3 of 4 engines going u/s ? Crikey. Be interesting to find out why - hope they get to the bottom of it quick.
 
#48
SEVILLE, Spain — Airbus on Tuesday carried out the first test flight of a new A400M since one of the military transport planes crashed in Spain over the weekend, killing four people.

In a sign of the company's confidence in the plane, the boss of Airbus Military Fernando Alonso was onboard the test flight, which took off from the company's Toulouse, France headquarters bound for Seville, site of Saturday's crash.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...first-a400m-test-flight-since-crash/27182625/

http://www.industryweek.com/global-economy/airbus-holds-first-a400m-test-flight-deadly-crash

Well done Mr Alonso, good leadership skills there.
 
B

Botormoat

Guest
#50
SEVILLE, Spain — Airbus on Tuesday carried out the first test flight of a new A400M since one of the military transport planes crashed in Spain over the weekend, killing four people.

In a sign of the company's confidence in the plane, the boss of Airbus Military Fernando Alonso was onboard the test flight, which took off from the company's Toulouse, France headquarters bound for Seville, site of Saturday's crash.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...first-a400m-test-flight-since-crash/27182625/

http://www.industryweek.com/global-economy/airbus-holds-first-a400m-test-flight-deadly-crash

Well done Mr Alonso, good leadership skills there.
Good of him to find time right after the Spanish GP
 
#51
Modern aircraft are like modern cars. One sensor goes t!ts and the management computer throws a wobbly. Except when you're in a car you can usually just piull over to the side of the road and call the RAC or AA [others are available]. If your engines quit on a big transport aircraft [no ejector seats] then it's probably going to end in tears, especially when you are a couple of hundred feet above ground in take-off mode.

Commiserations to the bereaved but big thanks to the farmer who pulled the pilots out of the cockpit.

Nice to see the top man from Airbus putting his balls on the block for the next flight. Nothing like a boss man who is prepared to stand with the troops when the going is tough.
 
#52
Rabbits / hares aren't good for the engine either**.

** Obviously an event that only occurs either on or in very close proximity to the ground
Ever heard of a fish strike? One Spam instructor on a type rating course told us about a big salmon they found in an engine after an inflight shut down. The engineers figured that it had been carried by an eagle, which dropped it when it noticed the aircraft approaching.

The biggest I ever had personally was an eagle owl (Uhu in German), right on the radome of a 737 during the take off run. The bird had a wing span of more than 5 feet (a follow me driver collected it dead from the runway after the incident) and sitting it wouldhave been about two feet tall. It still had a hedgehog in it's claws.
 
#53
Modern aircraft are like modern cars. One sensor goes t!ts and the management computer throws a wobbly. Except when you're in a car you can usually just piull over to the side of the road and call the RAC or AA [others are available]. If your engines quit on a big transport aircraft [no ejector seats] then it's probably going to end in tears, especially when you are a couple of hundred feet above ground in take-off mode.

.
No, Just No.
1) The chances of the sensor failing on every wing is near enough nil.
2) Each Engine has its own management system. The chances of them all failing and or miss reacting are again almost nil.
3) The Systems have much tested fail safe modes, so loss of sensors will not result in Engine wobbly.
 
#54
Ever heard of a fish strike? One Spam instructor on a type rating course told us about a big salmon they found in an engine after an inflight shut down. The engineers figured that it had been carried by an eagle, which dropped it when it noticed the aircraft approaching.

The biggest I ever had personally was an eagle owl (Uhu in German), right on the radome of a 737 during the take off run. The bird had a wing span of more than 5 feet (a follow me driver collected it dead from the runway after the incident) and sitting it wouldhave been about two feet tall. It still had a hedgehog in it's claws.
That's awesome and no a Fish strike is a new one on me. That even beats the real and legitimate car insurance claim - Hit by submarine.


I recall the piccys of the Herc V Golden eagle. After the Damn thing came through the lwr Flt deck window


Edit - Piqued my interest seems it happens on the runway too. http://www.usatoday.com/story/today...fter-fish-strike-at-florida-air-base/6087099/
 
Last edited:
#56
The present investigation into the crash is said to be focusing on the aircraft’s TP400 engines and associated fuel system. The power loss that seemed to occur on more than one powerplant would appear to point to fuel, fuel management, or fuel delivery system.

The Europrop International consortium engines are produce 11,000 shp and are the most powerful engine of their kind in the West. One of the more complex elements of the aircraft. They have had development issues and were responsible for delays in the A400M’s first flight. But it would be strange for a problem in more than one of them at the same time. A number of these aircraft have been operating for a while
 
#57
IIRC the development problems were with the management system rather than the engine itself.

Simply for info - no attempt to allude or link to recent events intended.
 
#58
Twas a very big glider when it went in. Pilot did his best in my very umble opinion. Several families have lost loved ones due to? A cockup that will be reasoned away.
Edit to add I think this will mature into a fine aircraft. Taking it away from Spain would help though.
 
#59
Bird strike would be possible but would have to be a hell of a big flock.

Unlikely for all 4 engines to fail simultaneously unless:
* Fuel system failure e.g. main fuel pumps
* Flight management system failure shutting down all 4 engines
* Total electrical failure of engine management systems

Whatever the cause, it happened at the worst possible moment. 80+ tonnes of aircraft is not going to glide very well at the best of times and recovery from a couple of hundred feet in a nose up attitude is nigh on impossible, there just isn't sufficient altitude to gain gliding speed.

[PS I used to fly gliders & have limited powered flight experience]
 
#60
Bird strike would be possible but would have to be a hell of a big flock.

Unlikely for all 4 engines to fail simultaneously unless:
* Fuel system failure e.g. main fuel pumps
* Flight management system failure shutting down all 4 engines
* Total electrical failure of engine management systems

Whatever the cause, it happened at the worst possible moment. 80+ tonnes of aircraft is not going to glide very well at the best of times and recovery from a couple of hundred feet in a nose up attitude is nigh on impossible, there just isn't sufficient altitude to gain gliding speed.

[PS I used to fly gliders & have limited powered flight experience]
The Flight management system does not start up or shut down the engines.
The Engines can normally suck enough fuel from the wing thanks in the event of fuel pump failure, Ignoring the fact there's pumps dedicated to each engine.

To suffer a total electrical failure of Engine Management systems would (normally**) require a total loss of electrical power.

Speculation is pointless its clear something went wrong and badly, but until more is known its all moot. Im not aware its even been confirmed there was an engine fault.
The crew reported a problem seems to be the only official statement, The story regarding a Multiple engine failure seems to have originated from a single newspaper, source unknown (unless ive missed an update).

With that in mind we could speculate the aircraft lost control authority because the fin bolts were loose.
 

Top