A2 Upgrade

Congratulations to the most recent 'winner' of A2 QHI status. I'm sure his or her experience teaching exclusively at 670 Sqn for the past 18 months will be an asset to the Corps. No doubt a wealth of knowledge will be shared once they get that coverted independant Flt postition.......not to mention a guaranteed crown.

Its not what you know, it's who you blow I guess. :roll:
Are you suggesting somebody was given the A2 grade as a back hander? I was under the impression that one had to produce the goods on the day. If so, it calls some serious integrity issues into question not only from the person receiving the qualification but the awarding officer. I doubt that would be the case and it sounds more like sour grapes to me.
What a stupid comment from D-FENS. It raises 2 issues. Firstly, since when has going away from Wallop had anything to do with a flying insrtuctors upgrade. The upgrade is controlled by the Central Flying School and is to do with the ability to instruct. Provided the individual meets the CFS requirements as set down in JSP550 and passes the examination who are you to comment in such an ignorant manner. Secondly, it questions the integrity of the Standards Officer who examined the candidate. Whilst I do not profess to know what was asked of the candidate or how well the questions were answered I would suggest that if an upgrade was awarded the standard must have been met. I don't know the current standards team from a social or personal point of view but I do know they are held in high regard by many in the Corps. Unless you have any hard evidence of some form of malpractice you should keep your stupid comments to yourself and not air them on a site where guests from outside the Corps can look and wonder what sort of fools populate the AAC.
Please tell me neodyniumyag an A2 upgrade is not only about instructional ability and flying ability but also experience in the instructional world, so how can a candidate for A2 status gain experience whilst only serving (instructing) at Middle Wallop? If you can answer that with a reasonable answer I will hand in my A2 wich was gained whilst in a field Army Regiment. This question or comment does not question the standards officer or candidate at all only the system for allowing it to happen. Looking forward to your reply.
How long will it take for someone in this thread to mention,

QHI, + Lynx, + IRE and a whole load of retakes for the line pilots once the facts were known!!!

Over to you 'Kidders' !


Wow, that didn't take long!!
I echo Bee_4s comment. Surely the A in A2 stands for Advanced. How can someone who has never served in a field squadron as a QHI have any credibility as an A2. It sort of devalues the qual dont you think? This person is now the same qual as most of the other Standards officers and the SFIs department.

But I'm sure the vast amount of experience not only in the flying world but prior service will ensure he/she can carry it off.

Any other A2s like to comment?
The A2 upgrade system is only about flying ability and instructional ability. As you say you are an A2 instructor you should know what the requirements are for qualification to attempt an A2 upgrade. The last time I looked at the relevant section of JSP550 it states the requirement is on time served as an instructor and number of instructional hours. There is no reference whatsoever to where the instructional hours are to be gained or any requirement for gaining "experience in the instructional world". You bring your wider experience with you onto the QHI Course, that's why potential QHIs are checked by Standards and selected by a Board of Officers to ensure that they are of suitable experience to train as QHIs. Remember that quite a few AAC QHIs have been posted to DHFS Shawbury stright from the QHI Course, taught only at 660 and/or 705 Sqn and been awarded A2 before being posted out to an AAC Unit as a QHI. These QHIs are every bit as good at the business of instructing as you are: CFS says so. I understand that the QHI scheme is owned by CFS and they are only interested in the ability to instruct, not what you instruct. At least a QHI from Wallop has taught TAC Flying, night, NVG, LLMR, may well have taught on an Army aircraft and been examined by an Army Standards Officer. Don't be so scornful of Wallop QHIs!
neodyniumyag said:
.......You bring your wider experience with you onto the QHI Course, that's why potential QHIs are checked by Standards and selected by a Board of Officers to ensure that they are of suitable experience to train as QHIs.
Im sure the Indep Flight that he/she will no doubt go to will enjoy his/her egg banjo skills then. It does help if you have 'other things' to bring to the party though. :wink:
neodyniumyag I am not having ago at Wallop QHIs, having been one myself some years ago and know how hard they work,however as A2beefer said' the A stands for Avadvanced'. How is the new A2 going to supervise baby QHIs in the Field Regiments with no field Regiment experience. As an A2 you are expected to be a Supervisary QHI? Without the field experience how are you surposed to hold your head up high and carry out that role or do CFS issue you with that if you dont have it? If the heats too hot, get out the kitchen!!!!
Excuse me Bee 4 if I don't quite get your point. An A2 category, by the CFS definition is not a supervisory QHI, it is a B1 QHI who has instructed for a requisite number of hours and for a specified period of time and been a recognised as an Above Average instructor by the person making the recommendation for upgrade. The B1 QHI has then passed an extensive examination to prove to a Standards Officer that they have the required knowledge, flying ability and instructional ability to be graded A2. As fas as CFS are concerned thats it. The fact that the AAC use A2 QHIs as supervisory QHIs is AAC business. It is up to the AAC chain of command and MCM to ensure that only those QHIs that have suitable experience are placed into supervisory posts. I would agree with you completely that an inexperienced QHI should not be a supervisory one, and that is regardless of category. However, don't get the two issues mixed up. I can only believe that the QHI you are talking about, whoever it is, has demonstrated a suitable "standard of instruction" to be categorised A2. If, as you suggest, this individual does not have a level of Field Army experience to be put in a supervisory role then he should be posted as a Sqn QHI supervised by the RQHI until his experience level is of a standard to assume a supervisory role. This is not a failing of the QHI system (or the upgrade system) or a slight on the QHI you are commenting on but a general misunderstanding on the way MCM/AAvn use QHIs.
This time I have to agree with you, however to stop this happening, maybe only QHIs who have field experience should be able to attempt this check thus eliminating such threads. I do believe this is a failing of CFS for allowing QHIs with no field experience to do it. How do you feel about this?
As was elluded to earlier, what can they bring to the party? I'm sure quite a few B1s could pass the check but its not just about passing is it? To be granted A2, that person has to truly be Advanced. How can someone prove to be above average in every respect as a QHI when all they have done is teach and fly around SPTA and Frem? Where will this new A2 go to next? DRQHI somewhere? CFS? Standards? Independent Flight? They are afterall qualified in MCM and CFS eyes. It sort of makes the system a joke IMHO.
As my handle might suggest, I was an Army beefer.

I did my A2 in 1984 at Wallop when it was the norm for QHIs to attempt to upgrade before leaving the school as the facilities and resources were readily available and there was a chance of reducing your wokload to enable the candidate to prepare for what was/is a pretty hard test of your instructional ability.

I was then posted to an operational Regiment - there was only one then, think about it. The fact that I was an A2 did not it any way influence that way in which I was employed, I was simply the QHI and got on with it. In fact when I applied for a post requiring the qualification PB14 as it was then said don't you think you should do your A2 first to which I replied I did it 2 years ago!

The fact is that A2 qualification is an insructional matter only, in gaining the grade you are proving that your instructional abilities have improved above that which are require for a B1 - Does the 'A' really stand for advanced? If so, show me!

I will add that on leaving the service the background research that I did for my A2 stood me in good stead when I went on to slog for my TRI/TRE though.

Ladies and Gents, I think that the attitude of some people in this thread is quite reprehensible. As an A2 I have only the greatest respect for anyone who puts themselves out to attempt what is a difficult upgrade. Lets not forget there is no extra pay for this or any guarantee of promotion. Instead of degrading the upgrade system we should congratulate those who have the guts to stick their heads above the parapit and are prepared to be shot at. I respect anyone who is prepared to give it a go.....pass or fail.
The system is desperately short of qualified A2 instructors....lets encourage B1 QHi's to have a go at it and not make the qualification worthless...as one who has been through it I can assure you that it is not given away but has to be earned.
well done to the latest recipient of this coveted qualification.
What a complete load of horse manure! Clearly, a load of twaddle from so called SME's. QAI's (QHI / QFI groups) are merely methods of instruction (flying et al) trained line pilots. What difference is there between a Lynx quick stop at MW and one executed at Wattisham? Is there a difference between an IRT in the MW IFTA and one at Dishforth? There bloody well shouldnt be..its a laid down prescribed test!!

None of the above should differ I would hope, as clearly the Corps would really have a standardisation issue!!

What difference in " QAI experience" is there between a 500 hr B1 DSHQI at XXX Sqn and a 500 hr SAAvn CTT instructor? Both of whom are required to deliver a standard and consummate level of pure flying instruction IAW appropriate HSI / SI / syllabi. No more no less. The main difference is that the School QAI is conducting pure flying instruction on almost every sortie flown. I would suggest that only a percentage of FA AFTR is pure flying, the rest is operational (doing the job!). This might be a factor that puts School QAI's ahead in achieving upgrade. Note is policy to get A2 for key posts, Ind Flt and SQHI where possible. If you have not achieved that, try looking inward first!

I am guessing that the real contention issue lies in the fact that FA QAI's are subject to poor man management, crisis levels of servicability, peer pressure, bergan runs, etc etc. Set against the relatively stable and less energetic backdrop of the School! Is this the experience yardstick that appears to be fretting and dividing the QAI fraternity? Grow up people!
The upgrade system is regulated and testing officers have strict guidelines by which to assess candidates. It is centric around the individuals ability to demonstrate that extra knowledge and pure flying instructional skill about the CFS core subject areas. Not that he/she has "experienced" 35 brown out dust landings, done 24 night NVG winch missions this year etc. That is "operational experience" and the SME's there are without any debate, LINE PILOTS and AI's. When a FA QAI is not undertaking pure flying instructional duties, he/she is just a gash sh*g line pilot, no more or less than the other pilots in the unit.

If you believe that an Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia tour, the QHI maketh..wrong answer. There are sound, level headed and very, very competent (experienced) line pilots out there that put most QHI's (and Standards Officers) in the shade when it comes to delivery of op capability (e.g fighting the aircraft). QHI's are merely employed to enable that individual. Many of which talk the talk, are good at the controls, can recite limitations..but do not understand Aviation. The B to A upgrade is all about the former, do not confuse it with the latter!
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