A2 Conversion Video. Are you convinced?

Discussion in 'The Training Wing' started by BuggerAll, Oct 9, 2005.

  1. A2 best rifle ever made

  2. A2 - OK but perhaps we could have had something better for the money


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  1. BuggerAll

    BuggerAll LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    Look into my eyes.

    Not around the eyes, but into my eyes.

    You are falling asleep.

    When you wake up you will believe that the A2 is the best rifle ever made, ever!

    1, 2, 3, You're back in the room.

    What do you think of the A2?
  2. It could've been made by carlsberg it's that good. Does exactly what it is asked to do if you use it, clean it etc properly.
  3. I still believe that we should have gone the way of the Ruskies and bought lots of AK47s. They even got the AK101 which fires NATO 5.56MM. I reckon the cost would be about £40 per rifle.

  4. [cynic]
    If the MoD went to Heckler and Koch for the modifications to the A1, that suggests they think highly of the H&K series weapons. It then would seem a natural progression to invest in the H&K series as a replacement.......

    Think about it:

    1. H&K produce a range of weapons that cover every use the MoD requires
    2. They have a wide variety of calibre and barrel length options
    3. Virtually every civvy company that sells "extras" for weapons will supply H&K parts (e.g. holsters, mag holders, maglite etc)
    4. As they are already mass produced, surely they would be cheaper....

    Having used several H&K variants I have so far found them to be generally more reliable and easier to handle than the A2. They are also significantly easier to teach....


    Ghost :eek:
  5. Retrofitting 200,000 L85A1 into A2 standards: under £100 million. (£93m I think it was)

    Buy 200,000 H&K G36 (all variants) + all the support and spare parts, gun racks, training, storage and everything else that goes with a brand spanking new weapon system: over £500 million.

    Fact remains, to scrap 200,000 L85A2s and buy a brand spanking new weapon system to replace it would cost upwards of 5 times more. Remember, it isn't just the rifle you're buying, it is everything that goes with it -- spares, extras, logistical supplies/support (gun racks, holsters, etc), and so on.
  6. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    BEEP ! BEEP ! BEEP !
    Bullshit meter gone into overload !

    £2,500.00 per weapon ?
    Even including all the Sp systems there's no way on the planet that it would cost that.

    Where did you get these figures from, mod.bo11ocks.com ?
  7. Of Cuts 3341 posts, 3150 of them have slated the SA-80 :D

    Anyone would think he had a greivance with it :D :D
  8. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    Sush MDN, or I wont let you be quiet when you're round here.
  9. http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/SA80.htm

    Scroll down and read for yourself.

    "Q Why didn’t the MOD replace the SA80 weapon system with a new weapon system?

    A There are two reasons:

    1. The A2 would achieve the required levels of reliability.

    2. It is more cost effective to modify the SA80 than it is to buy a new weapon system. To procure and support a new system would cost around £500 million . This includes spares, additional infrastructure (rifle racks, blank firing adapters etc), training etc. The modification programme is expected to cost around £92 million – a fifth of the cost of procuring a new weapon system."

    It's called "doing your homework". Surely the whole concept isn't alien to you.
  10. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    So I was right then, you did get the gen from mod.bo11ocks.com
    I'd read and commented on that site long ago.

    The MOD press release is more interesting for what it hides rather than the guff it promulgates.

    For example:
    Notice that this indicates mean rounds before failure to complete the above course of fire, and gives no indication of stoppages.

    How many times could you clear a stoppage and still manage to fire the 150 rds within the allotted time ?
    If they were firing at the official rapid fire rate of thirty rounds/min the sdr would be firing for five minutes - giving 420 secs to clear the stoppages.

    Here's another claim from them:
    Great, we can save more dosh by not training stoppage drills then.

    Their deliberate mixing of the words 'failure' and 'stoppage' is disingenuous, though a typical example of the Civil Service obfuscation.

    Condescension is so unbecoming.
    Perhaps you should get on with your homework before bed, you know it's a school day tomorrow.
    See ?
  11. A moot point, nevertheless I shall bite....

    The A2 has had not one, but two new Blank Firing Attachments!

    The question of training is irrelevant - when the A2 was brought into service with my unit whilst in an operational environment, nobody was allowed to touch it until they had been converted. As it is almost a whole new weapon, there were significant parts of the syllabus which have changed, and therefore required re-teaching. At last count, there were 15 Rifle Lessons in Pam 6 - the corresponding Support Weapons (Heckler & Koch series) pam contains only 6 lessons, which are applicable to every variant.

    As for the remainder of your post, I see Cutaway has admirably addressed the salient points :D

  12. Just realised that I could easily complete the "battlefield mission" for the IW with a bolt-action Lee-Enfield No.4 - it only requires a rate of fire of just over 17rds/min to complete it - and this is leisurely with a No.4 (if you're good).

    If you want to see what a REAL testing régime entails, see what the Swiss put the SIG 550 through: http://www.biggerhammer.net/sigamt/550/550techinspection/ Note here that when they mean "malfunction", they really do mean "malfunction", not something else.