A2 Conversion Video. Are you convinced?

Look into my eyes, not around the eyes, but into my eyes. You are falling asleep. When you wake up y

  • A2 best rifle ever made

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A2 - OK but perhaps we could have had something better for the money

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#1
Look into my eyes.

Not around the eyes, but into my eyes.

You are falling asleep.

When you wake up you will believe that the A2 is the best rifle ever made, ever!

1, 2, 3, You're back in the room.

What do you think of the A2?
 
#3
I still believe that we should have gone the way of the Ruskies and bought lots of AK47s. They even got the AK101 which fires NATO 5.56MM. I reckon the cost would be about £40 per rifle.

[/sarcasm]
 
#4
[cynic]
If the MoD went to Heckler and Koch for the modifications to the A1, that suggests they think highly of the H&K series weapons. It then would seem a natural progression to invest in the H&K series as a replacement.......

Think about it:

1. H&K produce a range of weapons that cover every use the MoD requires
2. They have a wide variety of calibre and barrel length options
3. Virtually every civvy company that sells "extras" for weapons will supply H&K parts (e.g. holsters, mag holders, maglite etc)
4. As they are already mass produced, surely they would be cheaper....

Having used several H&K variants I have so far found them to be generally more reliable and easier to handle than the A2. They are also significantly easier to teach....

[/cynic]

Ghost :eek:
 
#5
Retrofitting 200,000 L85A1 into A2 standards: under £100 million. (£93m I think it was)

Buy 200,000 H&K G36 (all variants) + all the support and spare parts, gun racks, training, storage and everything else that goes with a brand spanking new weapon system: over £500 million.

Fact remains, to scrap 200,000 L85A2s and buy a brand spanking new weapon system to replace it would cost upwards of 5 times more. Remember, it isn't just the rifle you're buying, it is everything that goes with it -- spares, extras, logistical supplies/support (gun racks, holsters, etc), and so on.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#6
Manchester_Rogue said:
Retrofitting 200,000 L85A1 into A2 standards: under £100 million. (£93m I think it was)

Buy 200,000 H&K G36 (all variants) + all the support and spare parts, gun racks, training, storage and everything else that goes with a brand spanking new weapon system: over £500 million.

Fact remains, to scrap 200,000 L85A2s and buy a brand spanking new weapon system to replace it would cost upwards of 5 times more. Remember, it isn't just the rifle you're buying, it is everything that goes with it -- spares, extras, logistical supplies/support (gun racks, holsters, etc), and so on.
BEEP ! BEEP ! BEEP !
Bullshit meter gone into overload !

£2,500.00 per weapon ?
Even including all the Sp systems there's no way on the planet that it would cost that.

Where did you get these figures from, mod.bo11ocks.com ?
 
#9
Cutaway said:
Manchester_Rogue said:
Retrofitting 200,000 L85A1 into A2 standards: under £100 million. (£93m I think it was)

Buy 200,000 H&K G36 (all variants) + all the support and spare parts, gun racks, training, storage and everything else that goes with a brand spanking new weapon system: over £500 million.

Fact remains, to scrap 200,000 L85A2s and buy a brand spanking new weapon system to replace it would cost upwards of 5 times more. Remember, it isn't just the rifle you're buying, it is everything that goes with it -- spares, extras, logistical supplies/support (gun racks, holsters, etc), and so on.
BEEP ! BEEP ! BEEP !
Bullshit meter gone into overload !

£2,500.00 per weapon ?
Even including all the Sp systems there's no way on the planet that it would cost that.

Where did you get these figures from, mod.bo11ocks.com ?
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/SA80.htm

Scroll down and read for yourself.

"Q Why didn’t the MOD replace the SA80 weapon system with a new weapon system?

A There are two reasons:

1. The A2 would achieve the required levels of reliability.

2. It is more cost effective to modify the SA80 than it is to buy a new weapon system. To procure and support a new system would cost around £500 million . This includes spares, additional infrastructure (rifle racks, blank firing adapters etc), training etc. The modification programme is expected to cost around £92 million – a fifth of the cost of procuring a new weapon system."

It's called "doing your homework". Surely the whole concept isn't alien to you.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#10
So I was right then, you did get the gen from mod.bo11ocks.com
I'd read and commented on that site long ago.

The MOD press release is more interesting for what it hides rather than the guff it promulgates.

For example:
Q How does the MOD measure reliability?
A It is measured by how often the weapon fails during a battlefield mission. It is presented in terms of Mean Rounds Between Failure (MRBF).

Q What is MRBF?
A This is a measure of the average number of rounds that are fired between failures of a battlefield mission test. The battlefield mission requires the IW to fire 150 rounds in 8 minutes 40 seconds and for the LSW to fire 960 round in 36 minutes (see the Q&A on the SA80’s initial in-service reliability on page 5 for further information).
Notice that this indicates mean rounds before failure to complete the above course of fire, and gives no indication of stoppages.

How many times could you clear a stoppage and still manage to fire the 150 rds within the allotted time ?
If they were firing at the official rapid fire rate of thirty rounds/min the sdr would be firing for five minutes - giving 420 secs to clear the stoppages.

Here's another claim from them:
The minimum expected life of the new components is 10,000 rounds. It is, therefore, possible for an A2 to suffer no stoppages during its life.
Great, we can save more dosh by not training stoppage drills then.

Their deliberate mixing of the words 'failure' and 'stoppage' is disingenuous, though a typical example of the Civil Service obfuscation.


Manchester_Rogue said:
It's called "doing your homework". Surely the whole concept isn't alien to you.
Condescension is so unbecoming.
Perhaps you should get on with your homework before bed, you know it's a school day tomorrow.
See ?
 
#11
Manchester_Rogue said:
Cutaway said:
Manchester_Rogue said:
Retrofitting 200,000 L85A1 into A2 standards: under £100 million. (£93m I think it was)

Buy 200,000 H&K G36 (all variants) + all the support and spare parts, gun racks, training, storage and everything else that goes with a brand spanking new weapon system: over £500 million.

Fact remains, to scrap 200,000 L85A2s and buy a brand spanking new weapon system to replace it would cost upwards of 5 times more. Remember, it isn't just the rifle you're buying, it is everything that goes with it -- spares, extras, logistical supplies/support (gun racks, holsters, etc), and so on.
BEEP ! BEEP ! BEEP !
Bullshit meter gone into overload !

£2,500.00 per weapon ?
Even including all the Sp systems there's no way on the planet that it would cost that.

Where did you get these figures from, mod.bo11ocks.com ?
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/SA80.htm

Scroll down and read for yourself.

"Q Why didn’t the MOD replace the SA80 weapon system with a new weapon system?

A There are two reasons:

1. The A2 would achieve the required levels of reliability.

2. It is more cost effective to modify the SA80 than it is to buy a new weapon system. To procure and support a new system would cost around £500 million . This includes spares, additional infrastructure (rifle racks, blank firing adapters etc), training etc. The modification programme is expected to cost around £92 million – a fifth of the cost of procuring a new weapon system."

It's called "doing your homework". Surely the whole concept isn't alien to you.
A moot point, nevertheless I shall bite....

The A2 has had not one, but two new Blank Firing Attachments!

The question of training is irrelevant - when the A2 was brought into service with my unit whilst in an operational environment, nobody was allowed to touch it until they had been converted. As it is almost a whole new weapon, there were significant parts of the syllabus which have changed, and therefore required re-teaching. At last count, there were 15 Rifle Lessons in Pam 6 - the corresponding Support Weapons (Heckler & Koch series) pam contains only 6 lessons, which are applicable to every variant.

As for the remainder of your post, I see Cutaway has admirably addressed the salient points :D

Ghost
 
#12
Just realised that I could easily complete the "battlefield mission" for the IW with a bolt-action Lee-Enfield No.4 - it only requires a rate of fire of just over 17rds/min to complete it - and this is leisurely with a No.4 (if you're good).

If you want to see what a REAL testing régime entails, see what the Swiss put the SIG 550 through: http://www.biggerhammer.net/sigamt/550/550techinspection/ Note here that when they mean "malfunction", they really do mean "malfunction", not something else.
 

Latest Threads