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A victory for common sense?

#1
I think so:

NHS cash crisis bars knee and hip replacements for obese

The first evidence that financial problems in the NHS are forcing trusts to ration operations came yesterday with an announcement that overweight people in East Anglia will be denied replacement joints, even if they are in serious pain.

East Suffolk primary care trusts said patients will no longer be considered for hip and knee replacements at Ipswich hospital if they have a body mass index of more than 30, the clinical definition of obesity.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/medicine/story/0,11381,1648581,00.html

msr
 
#2
A good idea, but surely in this pc age they will just get sued/forced to provide the right treatment? Or they'll be some sort of obese walk on Downing Street (ooh the irony).
 
#3
Does that mean if you are a bloater you get let off national insurance contributions? If so allows more funds for Pizza Hut!

What next no treatment for lung cancer cos you smoke?

No treatment for skin cancer cos you sunbathe on holiday?

No treatment for food poisoning because you've eaten a kebab on sat night lash up?

Seriously this is just an excuse to cover poor financial management in the Trust in question. It would be interesting to now what star rating they received.
 
#4
Fiji_Bob said:
Seriously this is just an excuse to cover poor financial management in the Trust in question. It would be interesting to now what star rating they received.
Or it might be a way to get the fatties to lose weight.
 
#5
I would rather hope that spurios operations like sex changes, cosmetic surgery, etc got the chop first. (Excuse the pun)
 
#6
Bloaters = Easy Target ( in more ways than 1!)

But how long before the faceless tree huggers get round to you and decide that what you do, that makes you ill, is self inflicted and leave you to suffer to save some dosh to pay for a management consultant's S class Merc?.

Divide and ?
 
#7
Fiji_Bob said:
Bloaters = Easy Target ( in more ways than 1!)

But how long before the faceless tree huggers get round to you and decide that what you do, that makes you ill, is self inflicted and leave you to suffer to save some dosh to pay for a management consultants S class Merc?.

Divide and ?
I don't smoke, I drink moderatly, I don't spend too long in the sun at noon. I am not overweight, in fact I'm in prime physical form, and I keep myself that way. They're not going to pin anything on me. :D
I do understand what you are saying though. But then again, if an illness is self-inflicted surely it's your fault? If you've been warned that if you continue that you will need treatment or you will die, and you choose to continue. Do you deserve the treament?
 
#8
Have any of the t*ssers considered the possibility that these people are over-weight because they can't get enough exercise as their knee/hips hurt when they move?
 
#9
Rowums said:
Fiji_Bob said:
Bloaters = Easy Target ( in more ways than 1!)

But how long before the faceless tree huggers get round to you and decide that what you do, that makes you ill, is self inflicted and leave you to suffer to save some dosh to pay for a management consultants S class Merc?.

Divide and ?
I don't smoke, I drink moderatly, I don't spend too long in the sun at noon. I am not overweight, in fact I'm in prime physical form, and I keep myself that way. They're not going to pin anything on me. :D
I do understand what you are saying though. But then again, if an illness is self-inflicted surely it's your fault? If you've been warned that if you continue that you will need treatment or you will die, and you choose to continue. Do you deserve the treament?
Hope you never get injured in a traffic accident then. It has been proven that driving/being a passenger in a motor vehicle is dangerous.
Eye sight getting a bit worse as you age? (It will happen) Must have been all that TV you watched.

Knees/back getting a bit knackered? Shouldn't have carried all them bergans around tne.

Sorry no help for you as it is all your own fault.
 
#10
Unfortunately this covers two different topics both popular with arrse members

FATTIES ARE OXYGEN THIEVES

and

THE GOVERNMENT/NHS ARE SH=T AND CUTTING BACK/MISS MANAGING FINANCE

I believe both to be true

On a similar theme is George best dead yet

Toodlepip
Thegimp
 
#11
Has anybody considered their knees and hips are fcucked because they are fcking fat

theGimp
 
#12
Steven-
Touche. I do get exactly what you're saying and that is a fair point. It highlights the question of where you would draw the line if this sort of thing got out of hand.
 
#13
I do find it hard to understand why people continue on a course of action knowing it will be harmful to them and perhaps they need shocking out of their habit.

The problem is those that propose these plans are after making a quick financial fix to cover their own inadequacy and divert the problem away from investigation into their financial incompetence to an easy target.

Not every nhs trust is poorly run just some, check the star ratings.

ok stop obese people from receiving nhs treatment, but then you should refund that part of their NI conts. that goes to the nhs.

This reminds me a bit of the suggestion that motorists should be charged for travelling on motorways when they already pay for that through road tax.

Also, an extreme analogy, but in Nazi Germany they started with the Jews, then the half Jews, then those related to Jews then the non Germans in the end there was no one left to complain for fear their group would be next.
 
#14
Who is resposible for the 40% of 22yr service leavers who have a heart condition within 12 months of leaving?

Mr Bliar hasn't missed out on that one - hence the change to pensions!!
 
#15
Draw the line at the money being wasted on proping up PFI deals, management consultants, pointless IT systems, hospital consultants spending half their working hours on private practices, foreign patients.
 
#16
BMI is a good statistical indication of obesity but it does not take into account how much fat compared to muscle a person is carrying, for example the entire England world cup wining rugby team would have been defined as clinically obese using the BMI system but clearly they would be fit for a joint replacement operation.
 
#17
jon1467 said:
BMI is a good statistical indication of obesity but it does not take into account how much fat compared to muscle a person is carrying, for example the entire England world cup wining rugby team would have been defined as clinically obese using the BMI system but clearly they would be fit for a joint replacement operation.
So? I'm sure your Gp would know that. If you actually are obese you aren't going to be able to say 'Nah it's just muscle mate'
And if you are an England World Cup winning Rugby player, I'm sure your Gp would be able to identify that you are carry muscle not fat. Or failing that how about using a body fat analysis machine?
 
#18
My point was that if criteria such as this are introduced there needs to be a much clearer system for identifying those people who are "fat obese" and those that are not. Where would one draw the line between people who do deserve these operations and those who do not. Joint replacement operations primary purpose is the relief of pain and at the moment the criteria for an op is the amount of pain that a person is in, not their joint fuction.
 
#19
My first instinct is to say, those who make an effort to keep themselves physically fit, ought to be given priority treatment. I asked a chest consultant friend of mine if he (even subconsciously) gives more priority to someone with lung disease, who has never smoked than to someone who has. He said he does not distinguish between the two, as his job is simply to provide the best treatment.

I think, where there is a clear causal connection, between a patient's medical condition and his or her deliberate, sustained, self-harming behaviour (that is generally recognised as such), a patient with a similar condition, who has not engaged in such behaviour, ought to be given priority treatment. I suspect, however, that such a move would have only a minor effect on waiting times for the queue-jumpers and that the weeding-out process might prove more trouble than it was worth.

As for denying treatment altogether (as in the East Anglia hip op case), if treatment has to be rationed on financial grounds, then I can think of more unfair means of deciding the pecking order than that proposed, but as jon1467 says, settling the criteria is far from simple. As advances in medical science progress and new cures and treatments are discovered, these sorts of medical ethics dilemmas will only increase. There will never be such a thing as infinite resources for medical care.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#20
hansvonhealing said:
Have any of the t*ssers considered the possibility that these people are over-weight because they can't get enough exercise as their knee/hips hurt when they move?
Jane Tomlinson ...talk about true grit.

swimming .....walking.....cycling

Google produced 831 hits in ' pages from the UK only ' mode on the phrase 'low impact exercise' ......here's one
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/sportexercise/classes/glossary.htm



Lee Shaver
 

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