"A Threat To Freedom Of Speech In England"

#2
"A Threat To Freedom Of Speech In England"
What you mean the labour party? :twisted:
 
#3
Whilst i can see his point about freedom of speech that is all well and good. But putting articles on the net about how to make fire arms, with a disclaimer that states this "Academic study purposes only"
does take things a bit to far.
What crazy person/terrorist who wants to make there own fire arm will pay heed to that warning, 'whoops cant make that gun as its for acamdemic purposes only'!

Freedom of speech is a right that has been hard fought for through centurys.

But when your doing more harm than good, and making web sites that could help mad people, to cause injury and pain to others, then maybe the police does have a point.
 
#4
If it's the state's prerogative to suppress any speech embodying information that could be destructively misused by a malicious person, what's left of freedom of speech?

Logarithm and trigonometry tables, maps, instructions on how to use metal-working machine tools, and chemistry textbooks could all potentially be used for perverse, destructive ends.

Then, there's the whole field of literature with political/ideological implications. Why should the police stand by idly while some irresponsible person circulates destructive socio-political ideas? Why, for instance, should anyone be allowed to read "Mein Kampf" or "The Communist Manifesto?"
 
#5
I do think the rozzers were a bit heavy handed here. A quiet word in his shell like would have probably got him to realise that publishing this stuff is not in the countries best interests. And after all I doubt very much a jury would convict him for publishing how to build a gun on the web – I could probably find such an instruction if I wanted to in a few minutes on google.
 
#6
Major case regarding limits of Freedom of Speech now before the courts in the US.. Seems an Iman was arrested for inciting his flock to train to be insurectionists and make ' jihad ' on the infidel..
naturally, given the temper of the times, he was arrested..he, just as naturally claims freedom of expression, etc..

Point is that under US law [ Brandenburg Case, I believe ] there has to be a clear and imminent connection between ' counselling' an action and the response.. i.e. you tell someone to kill someone else and they do it..
difference is like shouting " Fire!" in a theatre to see the response..


Same as the case of the prominent Hutu politician shouting out in a ' speech ' that Tutsis should be dealt with and the subsequent massacre that followed...

I'm sure that the Iman will be convicted in the lower court and I'm just as sure that it will be appealed up to the Supreme Court on those same Freedom of Expression/Speech issues.. after all in the US you're free to diseminate information against the ' regime ' and to actively campaign against its policies...counselling faithful Muslims in America to be ' prepared to 'defend their beliefs' against a national policy that appears to be against them is not a crime.. counselling to commit a crime is..

slippery slopes all round..
 
#7
Ord_Sgt said:
I do think the rozzers were a bit heavy handed here. A quiet word in his shell like would have probably got him to realise that publishing this stuff is not in the countries best interests. And after all I doubt very much a jury would convict him for publishing how to build a gun on the web – I could probably find such an instruction if I wanted to in a few minutes on google.
http://platinumchromatography.com/potato.htm

LOL check it out. :lol:
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#8
Shouting fire in a theatre. I did that admittedly I was aged about 6 and the whole clan was watching where Eagles dare in a Cinema near Cheadle. The scene was the back of the bus when |Clint Eastwood holds fire until the last moment on the pursuing motorcycle troops. Apparently everyone laughed so thats alright then!
 
#9
Oh bloody hell..I was explaining how to use potassium chlorate and sugar to blow tree stumps out of the deck to our 16 year-old apprentice this morning!! I expect I'll only have to serve half my sentence though and possibly less if I agree to vote Bliar. My defence will be "any 16 year-old should already have had about three or four years experience of this kind of thing already m'lud".

We certainly did when I was a lad...where are we now, erm...ex-Coy Commander in 45, loony ex-ATO working for whatever DILSA is now and erstwhile FFL trooper now stock-broker in 21 SAS and me, figure of probity. Stalky and Co, eat your hearts out?
 
#10
Sabre said:
. But putting articles on the net about how to make fire arms, with a disclaimer that states this "Academic study purposes only"
does take things a bit to far.
What crazy person/terrorist who wants to make there own fire arm will pay heed to that warning, 'whoops cant make that gun as its for acamdemic purposes only'!
Can't remember exact name of location but there are bazaars in Pakistan where the entire area is devoted to craftsmen making perfect copies of almost every weapon in the world armoury. From what I saw, as much done from eye as from drawings. And they go bang through the barrel and not the breech.
 
#11
The bazaar is in Peshawar...and they make most of them from a pattern piece. If they have seen one then they can make x zillion...all slightly different but perfectly lovely..
 
#12
If you post a site about making firearms in this day n age, he should've been nicked for being stupid!
Although an armed stop on his son's motor, nickin em both and trashing their gaff, i feel, was a bit OTT.

They must've had US military quality INT to have thought they'd find guns, only to find an eccentric old bloke.


still.....nevermind eh.
 
#13
Cuddles said:
I was explaining how to use potassium chlorate and sugar
Shouldn't that be sodium chlorate? Many a happy childhood hour spent experimenting with the stuff 8O

In any case I think they've now removed the the key component (what ever it was!!) and it doesn't go bang any more. :cry:
 
#14
Rudolph_Hucker said:
Cuddles said:
I was explaining how to use potassium chlorate and sugar
Shouldn't that be sodium chlorate? Many a happy childhood hour spent experimenting with the stuff 8O

In any case I think they've now removed the the key component (what ever it was!!) and it doesn't go bang any more. :cry:
'They' may well have added a component to prevent sinister use in other than potting sheds. Do you still have your eyebrows, RH?
 
#15
Whiskybreath said:
Rudolph_Hucker said:
Cuddles said:
I was explaining how to use potassium chlorate and sugar
Shouldn't that be sodium chlorate? Many a happy childhood hour spent experimenting with the stuff 8O

In any case I think they've now removed the the key component (what ever it was!!) and it doesn't go bang any more. :cry:
'They' may well have added a component to prevent sinister use in other than potting sheds. Do you still have your eyebrows, RH?
Eyebrows are fine, its the hearing that's gone!!

You really could get some fecking big bangs out of that stuff :D :D :D
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#16
OldRedCap said:
Sabre said:
. But putting articles on the net about how to make fire arms, with a disclaimer that states this "Academic study purposes only"
does take things a bit to far.
What crazy person/terrorist who wants to make there own fire arm will pay heed to that warning, 'whoops cant make that gun as its for acamdemic purposes only'!
Can't remember exact name of location but there are bazaars in Pakistan where the entire area is devoted to craftsmen making perfect copies of almost every weapon in the world armoury. From what I saw, as much done from eye as from drawings. And they go bang through the barrel and not the breech.
Darra in the NW frontier. They can make you a rifle in almost any calibre, ie a .5 browning AK.
I attended a very interesting lecture by a tourist whod been there at the IWM.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#17
hogspawn said:
If you post a site about making firearms in this day n age, he should've been nicked for being stupid!

......
But it doesn't take the brains of a rocket scientist to design them.

The various resistance organisations in europe managed to make their own weapons sixty five years ago, and without I believe, the benefit of the web.

Books have been published on this subject almost since printing has been around, so the government are on a hiding to nothing by leaping so heavily onto this bloke unless they can get rid of all those books and stop people thinking.

Which political party was it that was famous for book burning again ?
 
#18
New labour wasn't it?

I take your point. If crappy wee armies in the middle of nowhere in Africa can make guns out of plumbing pipes, and they haven't even got running water let alone t'internet, then I'm sure this chap wouldn't have made much difference.

but surely he knew he'd attract unwanted attention from big brother by doing it.

That doesn't make this paranoid govt right though.

Didn't 'kevin and perry from hell' in columbine get their bomb making instructions from the web?
 
#19
Rudolph_Hucker said:
Whiskybreath said:
Rudolph_Hucker said:
Cuddles said:
I was explaining how to use potassium chlorate and sugar
Shouldn't that be sodium chlorate? Many a happy childhood hour spent experimenting with the stuff 8O

In any case I think they've now removed the the key component (what ever it was!!) and it doesn't go bang any more. :cry:
'They' may well have added a component to prevent sinister use in other than potting sheds. Do you still have your eyebrows, RH?
Eyebrows are fine, its the hearing that's gone!!

You really could get some fecking big bangs out of that stuff :D :D :D
Sodium? Potassium? We just got it out of andrew's dads barn, where great sacks of it lay just waiting for the off! Blew a tree stump 20' high in the air once...just tamped the hideously unstable stuff down with a spade into small pit lined with bricks. discovered afterwards there are many nitrate compounds in brick dust...deep demolitions joy. Only had more fun on an AP course...
 

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