A Section 62, Q??????? VERY URGENT

Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by BADLAD, Dec 13, 2004.

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  1. A good pal (an Officer) has told me he could be in the brown stuff at work. he has been found out to have back dated an Official form. This form is not a claim form and has nothing to do with getting any money out of the system. However the form was sent on request as evidence for an investigation into a separate but very serious matter. He has now been told to stand by for a chat on the subject and Sect 62 has been raised on a number of occasions.
    what are the implications for him if this is true? as this case is going to the civil courts very soon.
    Thanks for any help on this.

    and NO, its not me :wink:
  2. chimera

    chimera LE Moderator

    He is a dimwit. I suggest you do not ally yourself to his cause.
  3. thank for that :wink:
    I take it this would come under this para?

    As i said before he had no fiscal gain but did have other motives in back dating some evidence, when submitting higher up, that he confessed to me over the weekend. I know its going to the civil courts so i guess i cannot go into what happened although i know, he is not the guy who is central to the civil action but has played a part.
    The guy has never put a foot wrong before (a much as i know) , will this and his rank (above Lt Col) not count in his favour?
  4. I suppose that a civil court could view tampering with evidence as conspiracy to to pervert the course of justice (or attempting to do so). As to his rank being in his favour, any officer is expected to demonstrate the highest possible standard of integrity (or not get caught!), so rank probably doesn't matter.
  5. If it involves the word bullying then he needs to stand by for a hard time


    Its not him..is it? 8O

    Tampering with any document during an investigation is illegal and a criminal offence and the higher he is (if found out) the harder he will fall, no one will wade in to catch him. Section 62 is just a guide but it covers every subject of fraud of attempted deceit.

    Be a good idea to get some legal help, I know a good one if he feels he needs it
  6. [deleted as read by now]
  7. The guys in cheap suits routinely expect that they might be told less than the truth and seek to test everything they are told by witnesses. Soldiers are expected to support colleagues in battle and it is reasonable to expect this in a peace time situation. Wrong but likely. His response when discovered in his falsity will be important. Continued denial of any misdeed will count against him. A prompt and full admission would have benefited.
    Deliberately trying to mislead is stupid. If one gets away with it, it can be the start of a slippery slope. It is certainly something that will stay in your mind for a very long time. My attitude in investigations was that chummy knew what he was doing was wrong. He has put himslelf up for auction. He can hardly complain if someone bids.
    As to giving him your continued support. Your decision but if he merely sought to assist a comrade then he is a fool but not evil.
  8. The voice of professional experience. Good points IMHO
  9. Good stuff Red Cap. :)
  10. Absolutely - make a clean breast, take the consequences on the chin and move on... that's what Integrity and Moral Courage are all about.

    I've encountered Service personnel who twist and wheedle and some do get away with such behaviour in the short term, but their cards are marked and if we don't get 'em this time, you can bet your arrse we'll get them next time. And there always is a next time.

  11. Who is included in WE.Are you
    2.Judge Advocate?
    3.member of a "Kangaroo Court"?
    4.member of a "Lynch Mob"?
    5.member of "The Justice League"?
    6.old lady knitting at foot of Guillotine?
  12. your not his adjutant are you? :lol:
    If so, hide under a very big table, there will be a huge fall out if true, and he may try to take others with him in a vain attempt to soften the blow to himself. I have seen this before

    he could become another statistic, fraud means any type from an MMA form to evidence submitted with the intent to deceive others.

    Mr. Robathan: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many armed forces personnel have been (a) disciplined, (b) court-martialled and (c) dismissed for improper financial claims relating to fraud since 1997. [202064]

    Mr. Caplin [holding answer 6 December 2004]: The information is as follows:

    Naval Service

    42 Naval Service personnel have been tried by court-martial for fraud related offences. Of those, 33 were found guilty of which 18 were dismissed from the Service. Figures for trial at summary level are only available from 2001. Between then and 2003, 93 Naval Service personnel were dealt with at summary level for similar offences, three of whom were dismissed.


    109 officers and soldiers were tried by court-martial for fraud related offences, of which three officers and 26 soldiers were dismissed from the Service. Figures for trial at summary level are only available from 2001. Between then and 2003, 30 Army personnel were tried at summary level for similar offences.

    13 Dec 2004 : Column 910W


    106 Royal Air Force personnel have been disciplined at summary level for offences involving fraud. A further 112 were tried by court-martial. Of these 13 cases involved officers of whom 10 were found guilty and five dismissed from the Service. Of the remaining 99 cases involving airmen, 85 were found guilty and 14 were subsequently dismissed.
  13. IF, I've encountered stupid g1ts with sweetie mouse perceptions and a chip on both shoulders, but you come close to taking the digestive. People who twist and wheedle come from all walks of life so stop making out the services have a monopoly on it.

    The difference is that the services also have to:
    spend long periods away from their families,
    take incoming and
    bury their dead

    more frequently that other parts of society.

    If you are a journalist why do'nt you ***k 0ff and find some real work to do?

    If you are some sort of sad redcap or MoD Plod then you need to try and learn a bit about " policing by consent".

    If they had the drill on your kneecaps I suggest that even you might twist and wheedle: or would your "moral courage" cause you to tell the enemy the truth at the first possible opportunity?
  14. There really is nothing like research, is there?

    The words stick, end, wrong and hold spring to mind.... :roll:
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