"A Reserve Force..." - Good Wavellroom.com article

Looks good. What are the long term non-attender (LTNA) numbers? If possible, keep it simple and go for not one day of attendance within the last 12 months.
Anything up to 50 per cent would be my guess but as a regular I would defer to someone in the AR
 
Anything up to 50 per cent would be my guess but as a regular I would defer to someone in the AR


Probably about that on average across units. I suspect some units have a high proportion and some have a low proportion. Which is probably linked to a mix of AR & Regular personalities creating a positive or negative environment.
 
Anything up to 50 per cent would be my guess but as a regular I would defer to someone in the AR
Is that just a SWAG, or based on experience? I'm well out of date now, but my experience was significantly different. If you've got more up-to-date figures, I will of course defer to them...

As a rule of thumb for the 1980s/90s, we reckoned we were doing well when we saw 50% of strength on a training night, 30% on a training weekend (we ran far more training days than we could afford to pay everyone to attend). That wouldn't have worked with the figures you're suggesting. At a guess, the long-term non-attenders were rarely more than 10% of strength* (as a 2Lt I can remember waving people off in the minibus to dekit people on their doorstep - delights of the 1980s, and we had a rather possessive QM).

"Ghosts" comes down to "perverse incentives". If the CO of a Reserve unit is somehow graded on their manning and FFR figures, do you really think that they're going to be hammering on the Chief Clerk's door, insisting that anyone who has declared an intent to leave, should be dekitted and discharged immediately? Or do you think that perhaps there's an incentive to leave the departing Reservist on the books (say) until the end of that Training Year, so that they get all the credit they can for them?
  • I've been through times where the training budget for our unit was set according to the number of soldiers APC believed we had on strength. Unsurprisingly, the CO / PSAO / Clerks weren't rushing to discharge them, because that meant we could spend that money on training days for efficient soldiers...
  • I've also been through times where the training budget for our unit was set according to our establishment; we discharged soldiers as soon as they stopped attending regularly / said they were offski, because that meant we could spend that money on training days for efficient soldiers (the mid-90s? transition from "nominal headcount" to "establishment" was welcomed by us, we thought it made more sense - we didn't want non-attenders either, they clogged up the ORBAT).
Bear in mind that sometimes you want to keep a non-attender, if you know them reasonably well. Let's take... "Gaz" in the late 1990s. He was a decent LCpl, had been in for a few years, and then changed jobs. He told us up front that his attendance was going to take a kicking because of his shift pattern, family circumstances, and need for overtime; and that his leave was likewise screwed, so we weren't going to see him at Annual Camp (or much else), and should he leave? We suggested that he delay handing in his kit; we had a spare slot, and hoped that the shift pattern would change. He kept in touch; once in a while an SNCO would have a chat, to see how things were going. IIRC it actually took over a year for things to settle down - at which point he started attending, settled back in, and (I think) deployed on an early TELIC. That particular bet paid off.

* Edited to add - this was at a detached platoon location; minimum of f**k-about factor, and two levels away from BHQ, so our attendance figures were higher than the rifle platoon sat in Company HQ*

** ...which had only just moved out to our very own TAC***, from sharing a location with BHQ and HQ Company. If you want to see really low attendance, have the QM's department dicking people for random jobs that take them away from training, "because needs done (i.e. can't be arsed trying to persuade the NRPS to do it tomorrow morning)". When I was sharing with BHQ I took to block-booking the outside classroom on training nights, so that everyone else was easier to find... and found excuses to parade the Platoon separately at the start of the evening whenever I could. Yeah, I know, "greater good", I was a bad subaltern...

*** It was our old 7th Bn Drill Hall, returned by Gunners who'd just had a shiny modern TAC built on the edge of town (but until nudged firmly, somehow didn't have space for their three 25pdr saluting guns that they used at the Castle). Sold twenty years ago,
it's an arts and crafts centre now; you can buy lovely artisanal coffee in the hangar where the four-tonners used to park, but the hot water system is still b*ggered :)
 
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Anything up to 50 per cent would be my guess but as a regular I would defer to someone in the AR

That figure strikes me as too high. I've been away from RD for sometime, but that I would have said <30%. You can divide a unit into thirds, 1/3 consistent attenders, 1/3 bounty minimum plus a few extra days and 1/3 non-attender up to bounty minimum.
 
As ever, the devil is in the details. From memory, AR are deemed "trained" post ph1 so a large proportion of them will be fit for not much in terms of anything requiring further trade training.

And that is before we get to the Army Reserve Pirates (ARRG - I am still on the books as trained strength but haven't been near my uniform for a number of years).
Another C**terfcuk.

Recrutiment was not looking good, waffly wavey hands were passed over.

"Low And Behold! Statistics Prove The Plan Worked!"

Tick VG, promotion acheived, ladder climbed, before stats decline.

Can only shift those sort of goalposts once
 
Another C**terfcuk.

Recrutiment was not looking good, waffly wavey hands were passed over.

"Low And Behold! Statistics Prove The Plan Worked!"

Tick VG, promotion acheived, ladder climbed, before stats decline.

Can only shift those sort of goalposts once


All it takes is a new VSO who hates a former VSO or an intelligent politican and the House of Cards will come tumbling down...
 

Mr_Relaxed

War Hero
As ever, the devil is in the details. From memory, AR are deemed "trained" post ph1 so a large proportion of them will be fit for not much in terms of anything requiring further trade training.

And that is before we get to the Army Reserve Pirates (ARRG - I am still on the books as trained strength but haven't been near my uniform for a number of years).
Didn't that apply to the Regular Army as well? One Army and all that. All those bods sitting in Phase 2 establishments suddenly counting as on the Trained Strength. It's a terribly cynical way to boost numbers, but politicians being what they are, and with the memory of goldfish, won't remember the detail a year later.
 
That figure strikes me as too high. I've been away from RD for sometime, but that I would have said <30%. You can divide a unit into thirds, 1/3 consistent attenders, 1/3 bounty minimum plus a few extra days and 1/3 non-attender up to bounty minimum.

Didn't that apply to the Regular Army as well? One Army and all that. All those bods sitting in Phase 2 establishments suddenly counting as on the Trained Strength. It's a terribly cynical way to boost numbers, but politicians being what they are, and with the memory of goldfish, won't remember the detail a year later.
I think this is the way it works:

RN has Trained
RAF has Trained
Army has Trained which means Basic Trained ie passed off at ATR
Army has Trade Trained
Army Reserve has just popped in
 
Didn't that apply to the Regular Army as well? One Army and all that. All those bods sitting in Phase 2 establishments suddenly counting as on the Trained Strength. It's a terribly cynical way to boost numbers, but politicians being what they are, and with the memory of goldfish, won't remember the detail a year later.

The Army's definition of trained is that you can wear a helmet and a respirator and carry and fire a rifle i.e. you could just about function in a composite light-role infantry company. That applies to everyone who has ever completed Phase 1 training at an ATR or the CC at RMAS.
 
Bit of a late post to the thread but once again someone at Land doesn't have a single clue how the real world works.

I've seen and had confirmed that a lot of units, including the OTC, are having a rigidly imposed ban on ALL extensions for personnel reaching the age of 55. Which has included chiefs. From experience, and I suspect other posters will confirm this, units only put requests for extensions in for people who benefit the unit. Those people tend to have qualifications and experience that is difficult to acquire for the average reservist so the policy will have a negative impact on the ability of units to function.
 
Bit of a late post to the thread but once again someone at Land doesn't have a single clue how the real world works.

I've seen and had confirmed that a lot of units, including the OTC, are having a rigidly imposed ban on ALL extensions for personnel reaching the age of 55. Which has included chiefs. From experience, and I suspect other posters will confirm this, units only put requests for extensions in for people who benefit the unit. Those people tend to have qualifications and experience that is difficult to acquire for the average reservist so the policy will have a negative impact on the ability of units to function.
I hate to tell you this but HQ LAND ceased to exist 10 years ago.
 
The Army's definition of trained is that you can wear a helmet and a respirator and carry and fire a rifle i.e. you could just about function in a composite light-role infantry company. That applies to everyone who has ever completed Phase 1 training at an ATR or the CC at RMAS.
Not sure about CBRN but Phase 1 for an ARes soldier or officer does not qualify them as a trained shot. Note that an ARes infantry 2Lt post PCBC has still not qualified as a trained shot.
 
Not sure about CBRN but Phase 1 for an ARes soldier or officer does not qualify them as a trained shot. Note that an ARes infantry 2Lt post PCBC has still not qualified as a trained shot.

They don't need to be, that is what PDT is for. As long as they can pick up a weapon safely and do the basics with it, the rest can be taught.
 
They don't need to be, that is what PDT is for. As long as they can pick up a weapon safely and do the basics with it, the rest can be taught.
It’s actually in the workplace training statement, which few read and can lead to some high level misunderstandings about the training status and training needs of reservists.

but yes, ultimately all about notice to move....
 
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