A radical solution to a radical problem:

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by bumhole, Aug 22, 2007.

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  1. Sitting in my Intermediate Staff Course some years ago, I argued that the USA didn’t lose the Vietnam war. It simply lost the battle. I cited the fact that every ragged arsed Vietnamese businessman held out his begging bowl to the USA these days, asking for access to markets, capital and technology. The war was in fact won by businessmen with MBAs not soldiers with M16s.

    The same logic applies to the cold war. I never fired a shot at the Eastern Bloc, and I don’t know anyone who did. But we won the war by economic might.

    So if you take these two examples to the current war against Radical Islam, we can see the fatal errors we are committing. Just like the Vietnam ground war we are fighting like with like. Whatever happened to attacking “centres of gravity”?

    If we want to win, and win we must, we need to follow some basic rules:

    1. Just like the cold war and the Vietnam war, we need to disengage the enemy. Pull out of Afghanistan. Pull out of Iraq. Let them do what they want in their own shitholes. We don’t need to waste money and lives fighting for the civil rights of the citizens of other nations. Without a unified enemy to fight they will lose cohesion and begin to

    2. In the same manner, we need to isolate them. So long as well allow refugees from these countries there will be an exodus of what should be opposition and “freedom fighters”. Free passage of dissidents from behind the iron curtain would have flooded the West and removed any potential threat to the Eastern Bloc. If we give the dissatisfied citizens no other option they will HAVE to fight. And they will fight the war we are currently fighting.

    3. The isolation must be total and complete. No aid, no medical assistance, no technology, no air flights, no shipping. Stripped of the assets of the west these evil empires will collapse just like communism did.

    4. We need to step up the psycops and economic war and reduce the military war. So long as we fight bullet for bullet we will create martyrs and make ourselves look like tyrants. Its hard for Fundamentalists to argue we are evil when we live a wonderful lifestyle, and they see it beamed into their houses every night, whlsit they suffer shortages and shit lifestyles.

    5. We MUST control the 5th columnists within our world. This is where the war really needs fighting. The mosques and the radical meeting houses of the West. We need to give the people who don’t like the western lifestyle a simple McCarthyist choice: accept our lifestyle or leave. The fight is now for our very way of life.

    No doubt these admittedly radical ideas will infuriate some. But before you reply ask yourself this: how many more London and Glasgow bombs will it take, how many more dead soldiers will it take, before you realise that what we are currently doing simply wont work.
  2. You talk of effectively returning large swathes of the Middle East to the Stone Age; I can't help thinking that is what many of them want.

    Perhaps it is our over reliance on oil that is at the heart of the problem; if we don't need it, we should need to expend so much maintaining an interest in the region.

    Stop buying oil and make these countries work for a living; can anybody name another economic commodity exported by the Middle East?
  3. Interesting thoughts and with a kernel of common sense running through. The problem is: Who is the enemy?

    North Korea? Taliban Afghanistan and Ba'ath Iraq. Easy.

    Iran? Syria? Yemen? Sudan? Saudi?

    You can't isolate these states, because the Chinese and Far East states will deal with them. You only have to look at Africa. We have effectively given up on the whole corrupt mass of them, but the Chinese will happily pay the necessary bribes.

    We need to engage with them, fill their airwaves with rock/pop, naked chicks and LA soaps and their young people will sit there thinking "We want some of that!"
  4. Here's a radical solution...

    Leave 'em to it...
  5. The problem is if we do that the buggers turn up in the West waving Refugee passes and carrying all of the fundamental crap they can.

    I took a mate out for a beer. He was just back from a stint in Afghanistan. We called into a bar featuring a live band, in the middle of Sydney. The place was full of “Middle Eastern Gentlemen” who were not drinking for religious reasons, but grabbing any passing female ass because they seem to think its acceptable so long as the girl is kaffar. Mt mate pointed out that controlling radical Muslims in Afghanistan was pointless if they all move here and carry on the same way.

    I spoke to one of these “gentlemen”, and he proudly told me he was a refugee from PAKISTAN!!!! He assured me that all of the girls here were cheap sluts and so they could do anything they wanted.

    This guy was EXACTLY the person you need to keep jammed up the Khyber Pass. With no live bands and no girls to feel, he will soon start agitating for a better life.
  6. It's going to be pretty hard to wage economic war on nations that have over a half of the worlds oil reserves. Not selling them stuff is easy, not buying their stuff will prove a lot harder.

    the US didn't lose the Vietnam wat. They destroyed the Viet Cong almost in its enteriaty and renderd the North Vietnamesse Army unable to fight for a generation. If it hadn't been for a political choice to fcuk with the Sov's they still wouldn't be able to fight. The mess about made the Russians feel the US had sold them out and so they flooded NV with arms and goods that meant they could succesfully invade the south after the US pulled out, job done.

    Economics had now't to do wi it.
  7. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    Part of the problem with Afghanistan is that we did leave them to it. The place got taken over by the Taliban, who made the country a safe haven/training ground for jihadees.

    Net result was 9/11.

    Complete disengagement from a rogue/dysfunctional state can turn millions of square miles into a free-for-all, as happened in Mogadishu and Afghanistan.
  8. Its ONLY a problem when we let the goons back into the West. Leave them in their shitpit.

  9. I would disagree. After the ground war ended Vietnam was in the same position the UK was in 1945 – bankrupt, with an economy geared to fighting a war.

    It took the free market reforms of 1986 (Doi Moi) to turn things around, moving to 8% annual GDP over the next ten years. And where did the money, technology and market come from? Yep – the good old USA. By 2000 Vietnam had a bilateral trade agreement with the USA.

    For Free Market Reforms” read “acceptance of the American way of life and abandonment of the communist regime they had fought for”.
  10. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    Too late me old c0cker. We've got some 2 million, a few of which let off the London tube bombs. It's a case of closing the stable doors after the horse has bolted, legged it to the nearest fine filly dealer, got signed up, ran the Grand National, got horse-napped, put up for ransom, bred from, necked and then chooped up before being put in bin-liners and then buried.
  11. You cannot create a TRUE DEMOCRACY in a Islamic country, their are about 41 Islamic countries not one is a true democracy. So have wars lots of so called refuges many who hate your guts, dont assimilate and take what is going for free to the detriment to your own people, when will ALL the people wake up and kick the Snivel Liberationists out ,many of these creeps are in paid jobs to look after these wasters paid by the tax payer in the main, plenty lawyers get loot out of this racket. The country needs to start of return the non workers back to where came from. YOU ARE CORRECT LET THEM FIGHT EACH OTHER it is cheaper by far.
  12. Too right,mate. It's not like they come over here and start their own businesses, or come from a background where you have to work an 80-hour week just to survive and hence find what we call 'hard graft' to be easy. It'snot like all the old jokes about Egyptian PT and all those old (and not so old) racial stereotypes influence our thinking in the slightest. It's Arabs and other foreign types filling the dole offices, not white chavvist scum.

    Hanging's too good for 'em.
  13. I hate to come across all tree-hugger-ish, but,

    While the main causes of strife in the Mid East are religious / cultural, it's pretty undeniable that the addition of vast sums of money, in the form of oil revenue, to the region have magnified the problems. Various undesirable types have had the wherewithal to buy really cool toys, and fund their bezzas' terrorist plans in the West.

    Also, because the flow of oil is so critical to life, the rest of the world (in the form of the US and UK) will understandably continue to stick our noses in if it looks like too much control of that flow of oil will be going to said religious / cultural nutjobs. This is, equally understandably, resented by the locals.

    Therefore, the solution would seem to be to reduce our requirement for oil. In a stroke, we would reduce the amount of revenue going to the foam-at-the-mouth brigade, and reduce our need to intervene to keep the supply of oil stable and in non-loony hands.

    So, how do we reduce our requirement for oil? This is where the tree-hugger bit comes in. Alternative means of energy production for transport, be it electrical, Hydrogen economy, Bio Fuel or whatever, has got to be brought on line as soon as possible, and the technology made freely available to the Chinese / Indians etc.

    Suddenly, the rest of the world will cease to care what goes on in that poxy little desert region, and the inhabitants will be free to kill each other to their heart's content.

    We made the Arabs rich by giving them money for their oil. It is in our gift to reverse that process.

  14. I take your point, however desperate time require desperate measures.

    Remember how one lunatic in Dunblane changed pistol ownership laws in the UK?

    Using the same logic, if a handful of Muslims cannot be trusted not to kill innocent people, then maybe we need to consider banning the religion, just as we banned gun ownership. We can give the people two choices, assisted passage to a Muslim friendly country (eg Afghanistan) or “religious re-education”.

    It is not nice, but this is 1939 all over again, and we interned all Germans that time.
  15. I have considered the same options myself over the years. As biped pointed out though, we already have about 1.5 million Muslims here. It is never going to happen that we can hoof out the radicals from the West, there just isn't the will or the mechanism to do so.

    You would have to completely isolate those countries for it to be effective, most of them are in the Middle Ages anyway so they would not notice much. Russia would never play ball and where would we get our oil? In another 70 years when the oil has run dry and they don't have the leverage maybe it could work. In the meantime you can already see how Russia is lining itself up as a key energy power (no pun intended) for the near future. You can be sure that those with the energy resources will use their leverage to the max before it runs out and it will be impossible to isolate them in a global market.

    I think that we are already too global for this to work. It would be nice to try though.