A question about charges?

#1
Can someone be charged by the civilian police (D&D (NOT ME)) and then be charged by the military (bringing the arny into disrepute). Is this not being punished twice for the same event?

And yes I am totally against D&D. I don't drink at all if I'm driving and don't drive the next day until the eveningif I've been drinking.
 
#2
I believe yes because you are being charged for two different things. Firstly Drink Driving and secondly Bringing the army into disrepute.

The Army couldn't charge you with D&D again.
 
#4
vandyke said:
I thought D&D was drunk and disorderley, DUI (Driving under influence) is Drunk driving
If we are being picky, I thought it meant Devon and Dorsets, surely not a chargeable offence!
 
#5
floppyjocky said:
vandyke said:
I thought D&D was drunk and disorderley, DUI (Driving under influence) is Drunk driving
If we are being picky, I thought it meant Devon and Dorsets, surely not a chargeable offence!
I don't know, I've heard stories about them ;)
 
#6
CivPol will bring formal charges leading to loss of license etc, the military action is far more likely to take place under the AGAI and is therefore administrative action not double jeopardy discipline.
 

B_AND_T

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
DUI is civvy offence and therefore dealt with by civvies. You can also be charged with bringing the Army into disrepute, however the norm now is to take AGAI 67 major action against the person.
 
#8
Once again IT IS NOT ME, but are they not punishing the person involved twice once civilian once by the military but both because of the DUI one offence.
 

B_AND_T

LE
Book Reviewer
#9
Snakes_R_Us said:
Once again IT IS NOT ME, but are they not punishing the person involved twice once civilian once by the military but both because of the DUI one offence.
OK OK pass it on to the "friend" of yours.

The best way to explain it (for AGAI Action) is:

If "you mate" was a bus driver and got caught DUI, he would be fined and banned.

This would mean that he would be incapable of carring out his duties and therefore could be liable to dismissal. This is administrative action.

All cases have their own merits however in each case the service test must be applied.

Does you mate have rank, what job does he do etc etc etc
 
#10
It is a fact that the military can charge your 'friend' with bringing hte Army into disrepute or sanction him uner AGAI 67. The effect of this can vary from a bo**ocking, through to a time bar for promotion.

It also depends upon whether his job requires him to be a driver. If he is a driver in the MT/ the CO's/ OC's driver for example then I think the Army is justified in taking some action, but otherwise I hate the concept of punishing someone twice.

If it was me I would put up with it as long as there was no long term effect. A roasting from the CO and/or a few show pdes are no big deal and probably deserved. But if it results in a Regtl Entry etc I would be extremely angry. That said, there is not much that one can do about it since rules are rules etc. At least if charged formally by the CO, the individual has the opportunity to have an Accused Advisor etc.

Tell him not to kick up too much of a fuss unless there will be lasting career damage.
 

B_AND_T

LE
Book Reviewer
#11
A civil conviction, depending on severity, would normally result in Regt Entry.
 
#12
IT ISN'T ME!!!!!
I was having a conversation when someone mentioned that a lad was being charged for DUI before the case has been to court. I thought they would have to wait until after the case was heard and sentence passed, as what would be the outcome if he was found not guilty of DUI.

B&T what if he was a labourer who didn't need to drive should the company he works for punish him administratively?
 

B_AND_T

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
"I have this friend, who's sister boyfriend.............."

Anyway what happened to innocent until proven guilty.
 
#14
Snakes_R_Us said:
B&T what if he was a labourer who didn't need to drive should the company he works for punish him administratively?
Sh1ts all over the values and standards and does bring the army into disrepute. As soldiers we should have standards at all times blah blah blah.... Bottom line it reflects badly on all of us.

Got him.
 
#15
FieldDiscipline said:
Snakes_R_Us said:
B&T what if he was a labourer who didn't need to drive should the company he works for punish him administratively?
Sh1ts all over the values and standards and does bring the army into disrepute. As soldiers we should have standards at all times blah blah blah.... Bottom line it reflects badly on all of us.

Got him.
Got me with what?
Yes we have values and standards, but he broke the law and will be punished, why should he be punished twice
 
#16
Snakes_R_Us said:
FieldDiscipline said:
Snakes_R_Us said:
B&T what if he was a labourer who didn't need to drive should the company he works for punish him administratively?
Sh1ts all over the values and standards and does bring the army into disrepute. As soldiers we should have standards at all times blah blah blah.... Bottom line it reflects badly on all of us.

Got him.
Got me with what?
Yes we have values and standards, but he broke the law and will be punished, why should he be punished twice

He is being punished for two separate offences, the ultimate result culminates in receiving a punisment for each one.

He is not being punished twice for the same thing.
 

B_AND_T

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
Apply the Service Test. I will try and find it and post it if you havn't got it.
 

B_AND_T

LE
Book Reviewer
#18
Rank Status and Responsibility

Damage to Army's Efficiency and Op Effectiveness

Damage to Service Reputation

Disregard for Service Policy

Understands Service interest

Public Knowledge

Operational Circumstances

Response

Previous Warnings

Any Other Factors

The impact would be Y/N or NA

Fill in comments as required.

Hope this helps
 
#19
Yes that helps, but had not been done by plod for DUI he would not be done by mil so I feel that he is being done twice for the same offence.

IT ISN'T ME
 
#20
but had not been done by plod for DUI he would not be done by mil so I feel that he is being done twice for the same offence.
This is getting repetetive, but whilst he might feel life is unfair and that he is getting done twice the fact is that he is getting done once for DUI (by civvy police) and once for bringing the army into disrepute (by the army). The two arise from the same incedent, but that is neither here nor there.

Servicemen, and actually many other people, are expected to behave in a manner which does not reflect poorly on themselves or the organisation they work for. If they do behave in an unacceptable way theyre disciplined.

I have been out of the Army for over 20 years, but I have never had a job which would not have resulted in some additional disciplinary action had I behaved innapropriately. It might just remove your mates feeling of injustice if you explain to him that many civvies would be in a similar position.

Or the short answer to

why should he be punished twice
Because them is the rules, so why shouldn't he?
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top