A possible solution for Iraq

#1
Despite the best efforts of the US led coalition forces, peace in Iraq seems as far away as ever. Violence and deaths are, if anything, increasing, with no obvious end in sight.

An attempt has been made to set up a democratic government, but of course, this is split along sectarian lines, as indeed is the whole country. In effect there is now a civil war.

A valid point has been raised by General Sir Richard Dannatt:

"The original intention was that we put in place a liberal democracy that was an exemplar for the region, was pro-West and might have a beneficial effect on the balance within the Middle East. That was the hope. Whether that was a sensible or naïve hope, history will judge. I don't think we are going to do that. I think we should aim for a lower ambition."

... continued here:

http://st-george-true.blogspot.com/


http://st-george-true.blogspot.com/
 
#2
Iraq seems to have got to the NI-type situation where leaders of PIRA and our Army realised that there was no military or armed force solution. That focussed attention on debate. My years in Middle Eastern countries as mil and civvy convinced me that democracy as we know it is not something they understand, want or really need. Debate between coalition and those now in power would be ineffective. Pols want to remain on gravy train and we want people with whom we 'have an understanding' - i.e. them in our pockets. Something similar to Aden where we did the deal with those in power and as our ships went overthe horizon the other lot came in and took over power. Bang went all the 'understandings' we had debated and agreed.
 
#5
Good idea however a few problems I can think of immediately:

-There is no mention of the major problem with the influx of foreign foreign fighters in Iraq from around the world who will fight tooth and nail to ensure that the region is never stable as it does not suit their interests.

-I cannot speak for the whole of Iraq as I have only served in the south but from my experience there I can tell you that they are very proud of being Iraqi, therefore I dont see the residents of Basra taking kindly to becoming Kuwaiti because it is convenient for us.

-Having visited Kuwait City I can tell you It is a lovely place very clean and civilised (the people are all rich). I am not convinced the Kuwaiti people would want to be burdened with Al Basrah which is a sh-ite hole. Think of the problem with removing their borders, movement of the population to Kuwait city not to mention the security problems.

I fear you are tryting to apply an overly simplified solution to a very complex problem. Nice try though.
 
#8
Good old tony should stop involving britian in warzones that we do not have the man power for nor the equipment... :threaten:
 
#9
Does anyone remember the rag-heeds who came into Eastern Bosnia around '94 in 4X4s? Somehow called Mujahadin. Nasty bstds too. The responsibility lies with the clerics who hold total influence. Surely we can be smarter about getting the clerics (even partially) on our side?
There was an interesting analogy on CNN the other night regarding the Iranian crisis but can be applied everywhere: the US plays poker, Iran plays chess. Apparently we have the best brains in the West... surely they can work this out?
 
#10
call_me_jack said:
Kuwait City I can tell you It is a lovely place very clean and civilised



http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE170072002?open&of=ENG-KWT




Mohammad Zahar Abdul Sattar, Anwar al-Zamaan, and Anwar Khan Mohammad were executed by hanging on 30 June at around 8.00 am, local time. The men reportedly took nine, twelve, and thirteen minutes respectively to die. It was reported that their bodies were left for public viewing for fifteen minutes following their execution.




...need I go on?
 
#11
frenchperson said:
call_me_jack said:
Kuwait City I can tell you It is a lovely place very clean and civilised



http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE170072002?open&of=ENG-KWT




Mohammad Zahar Abdul Sattar, Anwar al-Zamaan, and Anwar Khan Mohammad were executed by hanging on 30 June at around 8.00 am, local time. The men reportedly took nine, twelve, and thirteen minutes respectively to die. It was reported that their bodies were left for public viewing for fifteen minutes following their execution.




...need I go on?
Please do post more links to prove that you can use a search engine, as it seemed like a pretty good place when I was there (relative to Basra where I was based at my time of visiting). Have you personal experience of either city?
 
#12
frenchperson said:
call_me_jack said:
Kuwait City I can tell you It is a lovely place very clean and civilised



http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE170072002?open&of=ENG-KWT




Mohammad Zahar Abdul Sattar, Anwar al-Zamaan, and Anwar Khan Mohammad were executed by hanging on 30 June at around 8.00 am, local time. The men reportedly took nine, twelve, and thirteen minutes respectively to die. It was reported that their bodies were left for public viewing for fifteen minutes following their execution.




...need I go on?
Convicted of the gang rape and murder of a Sri Lankan maid. Pity it was so quick and pity we don't do the same.
 
#15
frenchperson said:
Hardly civilised behaviour is it? And that's my point.
Clearly you have never been to Basra, take a trip there then visit Kuwait city and tell me if they are not civilised.

The point I was making was the people living in Kuwait city would not like what the locals in Basra would inevitably make their city into.

Do not use this thread to try and spread evidence supporting your political beliefs when they are totally irrelevant. You just spotted a chance to spout off with your lefty bullshit and took it. TROLL
 
#16
frenchperson said:
Hardly civilised behaviour is it? And that's my point.
Neither is gang rape or murder! and if the crime was carried out in their native country I'd dare say their fate would be the same dont do the crime if you can't do the time!
 
#17
call_me_jack said:
Please do post more links to prove that you can use a search engine, as it seemed like a pretty good place when I was there (relative to Basra where I was based at my time of visiting). Have you personal experience of either city?

If the invasion of Iraq had been legal then I'd accept your position on 'being there', however it wasn't and if you were serving in the UK forces, your position is therefore untenable.


Also, since when has opposition to the death penalty been 'lefty bullshit'? You'll find lots of Labour right wingers opposed to it - from the top man downwards. And who can be a better example of neo-fascism and intolerance than the present Labour government?
 
#18
It is interesting that many propositions about Iraqi war ignore Iraqi people. But Iraq first of all belongs to Iraqis, it is their land, it is up to them to decide their fate.

My solution: a referendum in Iraq about the presence of foreign military forces in the country. If the Iraqis would not vote for it then it would be a good cause to quit Iraq.
 
#19
call_me_jack said:
-Having visited Kuwait City I can tell you It is a lovely place very clean and civilised (the people are all rich).
Jacko me boy, you clearly don't know Kuwait that well. The KUWAITIS are generally rich, the Pakistanis, Indians and Bangladeshis who work there are treated like sh1t! Indeed, westerners get treated little better.

If you think it is clean I can only imagine that you have experienced one night time ride to the Marina Mall or perhaps stayed at the KBR Hilton. Kuwait is FILTHY. Take a ride around Hawalli or Salmiyah and then tell me what you think. Indeed, you could go to Jahra (I don't recommend it) where the Bidoun live. I think you might change your mind.

The Kuwaitis are without a shadow of a doubt, the most racist, obnoxious, lazy race I have ever had the displeasure to meet or live amongst.

Edited: Because I realised that I have just ended up on the same side of the argument as Frenchperson and that will never do!
 
#20
Hass has an interesting piece in Foreign Affairs.

Whatever we do the country will probably fragment. A major regional war is not an unlikely in its wake. Iraq has too many rich prizes for its predatory neighbors to resist and apart from fat little Jihadi loving Kuwait they are all predators. Iraq was just the gentelmanly preamble.

The Shi'a Crescent is rising and the Sunni Arabs are increasingly in the grip of revolutionary Islamism. The Turks eye the Kurds waiting for their moment. Iran flexes its new found Imperialist muscles and gets cosy with China.

There'll be boots on the ground in the region for the next 50 years.
Revelation 6-8: And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
 

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