A pistol to bring back ISSF centrefire to the UK!

Discussion in 'Weapons, Equipment & Rations' started by stoatman, Jun 21, 2005.

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  1. At hte Comenwealth games we cleaned the floor with everyone in the shooting sports, and hardly got a mention.

    I also heard under the plans for the olympics they where going to build a shooting sports area, then knock it down again after the event.. (sounds silly in the extreme, but is it true?).
     
  2. Any news on whether it's any good or not? It's such a simple idea that I'm surprised it has taken this long.

    Looking at it though, it becomes obvious just how ineffective gun bans are when it comes to preventing their use by criminals that want to use them. I reckon any half-decent light-engineer with a milling machine could produce something similar and a simple revolver would be even easier.
     
  3. cpunk

    cpunk LE Moderator

    I think you're quite right. I know a theatrical armourer who has been making excellent blank-fire SMGs for years - as seen in many a film and TV series - and he's perfectly capable of manufacturing the real thing if necessary. This is one of the reasons that the forthcoming ban on replicas is so ludicrous. It is certainly true that you can convert a replica to fire a few live rounds, but actually most won't survive the pressure of shooting live ammunition. OTOH, a competent machinist should certainly be capable of running up something simple and lethal in very short order.
     
  4. I was just thinking: How many light-engineering companies have CNC machines nowadays? Many gun parts are made on them now so what if you happened to get hold of say, Beretta's CNC instructions for the 92F?
    The most difficult thing to make would be a rifled barrel and being in it's raw state nothing more than a steel tube that is probably the easiest thing to smuggle.
     
  5. You don't even need a rifled barrel for a crim's gun - just make it smooth.

    In any case, barrel blanks are just tubes with spirally things down, and are thus not restricted - try to define in words the difference between a rifled blank tube & a nut, for instance, in a legally concise and clear manner. Although this shower would probably just say "Tube which may contain grooves and that may possibly be converted for use on a firearm" and then licence plumbers...

    The thing is that the technology is really not high at all, and anyone with a lathe can whip up a zipgun in no time at all, and anyone with a lathe & a mill can make almost anything, given time. Guns were manufactured in the Warsaw Ghetto, for chrissakes!
     
  6. Yes it's true, the current plan is to build the Olympic shooting ground at Woolwich and then knock it down to make way for a prime building site to put housing on.
    Apperently Bisley is too far away. Sounds like complete bollocks to me.
     
  7. Couple of problems with the pistol as it stands. It's not semi-auto - it needs re-cocked every shot . And I also seem to recall something in the ISSF rules about not being allowed second, previously loaded, magazines - you're only allowed one, and you reload the magazine on the firing point.

    So the "Patriot" user would have to reload their "five shot bloc" with black powder on the firing point. Oh, that will do the accuracy no end of good.......
    http://www.issf-shooting.org/rules/2005/25_pistol_2005_1st.html

    Not true. While Mick Gault had a good games (several Gold Medals) the Home Countries didn't do anywhere near as well as the Indians and Australians. At the 1998 Commonwealth Games, every single member of the Australian shooting team went away with a medal. Gits. But then, they were working damn hard towards the 2000 Olympics in Sydney.

    The "hardly got a mention" earned the BBC a shedload of criticism from the event; the blokes on-site were televising things furiously, and outside countries were taking live feeds for some events (Olympic Finals, for instance) the BBC showed rock-all. Their response was that they'd covered it on the Digital channels, which was rubbish.

    They did rather better with the Olympics coverage in 2004, with Mike Babb's appearance in the Mens' Prone Rifle final being shown live (he came 7th). Maybe complaining to the BBC does change things :)

    The problem is that the Olympic Village is in East London, and Bisley is to the west of London. Building a "satellite village" would be prohibitively expensive, and Bisley Camp isn't up to the job as it stands (we're talking 500 athletes and team support, not to mention a fair few officials to run the event).

    The Commonwealth Games used Guildford University for accommodation for shooters, and even that was a half-hour each way journey. So, all the athletes and officials at the Olympics would have to spend at least a couple of hours a day on buses between the two. Not good.

    Apparently, Bisley was the original London 2012 venue, but the IOC criticised it specifically, citing travel time. The story's not quite straight on the temporary thing; some contradictions within the London 2012 site. I believe that while the venue will be temporary, the lane equipment (think AMS - SIUS-ASCOR have kitted out the last three Olympic ranges) would be redistributed around the country after the event.
     
  8. It's not black powder btw - it's nitro. The ISSF are allowing the "longarm" free pistols for Brits in competition, so I'd hope that they'd be amenable to this too. They might define the block as a "cartridge" for the purposes of the rules as a way around it, for instance. Certainly it will allow Brits to train in the UK, even if the ISSF won't allow it in competition. The re-cocking is no more of a problem than re-cocking a revolver (the way it used to be done).
     
  9. Ooops on not spotting the nitro.

    Anyway, the longarm already met the ISSF Free Pistol rules, and so the ISSF couldn't argue with it; no "allowing" was required on their part.

    The block would still count as a filled magazine, because the reason for the rule (as I understand it) is to restrict the number of rounds available on the firing point to the firer; can't have you firing an extra shot after a miss, now can they? :) I saw someone getting penalised for having a second filled magazine on the point back in March (not that I'm a pistol expert - I just saw the Jury's decision nailed to the results board) under rule 8.6.4.7.3 - no more than five cartridges loaded into the pistol after the command LOAD.

    So, even with their handy one-button, nitro charger, I presume you have a minute to put in five primers, charge five compartments, and fit five bullets, under competition pressure. Someone will try it, I've no doubt :)

    The recocking is an issue in that ISSF pistol is done one-handed, and typically side-on to the target. It means that you would have to either change your grip, or break your stance, between shots - and either would put you at a disadvantage compared to the semi-auto shooter. Again, I suspect that someone will try.

    The alternative is to move to the Isle of Man, or Norn Iron, where the sport is still legal :) The thread title should more correctly be "....to GB", not "...to UK". :)
     
  10. I don't have to break my stance to cock a revolver (I live in a country which still trusts us with these things - it's pretty screwed up that a foreign govt trusts me more than my own one), so unless you're /really/ side-on, I can't see it being a huge problem. And certainly not a big enough one to slag off the whole project! It's better than a punch in the teeth, which is all we've been getting recently!
     
  11. :lol: :lol: :lol:
    wonder when the medjia will find out about this potential baby killing device :roll: :evil:
    But good on the guys who developed it.
    what the chances of anyone actually be allowed to own one though :evil: ?
     
  12. Maybe I'm missing something, and I think the post-Dunblane legislation was heavy-handed but the question remains: How do you stop another Thomas Hamilton and protect the rights of shooters? The criminal user of firearms will always be with us, but the usually-sane shooter who loses it one day and has access to a safe full of 9mm handguns now isn't.

    We've got a strange view on firearms in this country: every other European state has more liberal laws (and routinely armed cops) and seems to get by.

    Like I said, I'm ambivalent, but that's the question I'd like answered most.

    V!
     
  13. No, but he still has access to semi-auto and pump shotguns with large magazines, semi-auto 0.22 rifles with even bigger ones and 7 shot long barrelled revolvers in 0.357 magnum, not to mention a vast range of other firearms, any one of which is capable of doing everything that was done at Hungerford and many of which are just as concealable as the weapons used at Dunblane.

    UK firearms law is clearly a mess and its recent developments seem to me to be entirely caused by panic among politicians, New Labour political correctness and a despicable desire to persecute a minority in order be seen by the public to be doing something about 'gun crime'. Normally sensible people seem to go off their heads when they have to think about firearms.

    However, we seem to have seen off the wilder proposals in the recent consultation document, which had the paw marks of the damn fool Snowdrop people all over them. For the time being, at least.

    As for stopping another Hamilton, the simple answer is that life is not ever going to be risk-free. A more cynical one is that there is now much less chance of a wrong 'un being looked after by his mates in the local constabulary and a more comforting one is that simple measures like control of entry to schools and stricter licensing provisions have gone a long way to reduce that risk I was talking about.
     
  14. It could be disguised as a ski-pole or you could bring it over as a walking stick by attaching a handle to one end and a rubber foot to the other.

    A short barral could be used to substitute a component in a leg calliper. You could stick a rifle barral a golf bag with a load of other long metal things (golf clubs) and see if anybody notices.

    If you sailed a dinghy accross the channel you could put stuff in the hollow handle of the tiller extension.

    perhaps a firing pin could be disguised as a fountain pen or if you really wanted to be imaginative you could wrap it in cardboard and stick it in the post.

    :twisted: