A new Deepcut report - published today

Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by Rhino_Stopper, Sep 14, 2006.

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  1. Available in Private Eye - does not make pleasant reading.

    Not available online yet - only at news outlets.
  2. Points raised?
  3. read it but not at hand.

    one point stood out: british army suicide rate double general population. i wonder where they get the figures. but from my medical days i remember that the most common method of suicide in the uk is by overdose of non prescription medicines (aspirin and paracetemol, over 50% of cases).

    that these four were all shot, and went to such lengths to get a rifle, when it would have been quite simple to get hold of a bottle of aspirin, the most common poison of choice in the uk, especially amongst the under 25's, arouses suspicion.

    what is the suicide rate for the british army? if it is something like one case per 10,000 per annum then it is not much different from the suicide rate of many other similar foreign armies. so that does not arouse suspicion.

    tales of abuse, including sexual harassment/abuse, in foreign armies, which i have heard about unofficially, and if what i have been told is true. happen. suicide rates are about one per 10,000 per annum. i do not know the methods employed, shooting. poison, cutting wrists etc., etc., as armies are, for want of a better term, coy about the subject. thus it might well happen in british army, however much the british or any other army might aspire to integrity, as individuals or collectively. abuse (physical to extreme) and or suicide (induced?) thus statistically, sociologically, likely.
  4. I would treat with caution any comparison which is only with the suicide rate in the population as a whole, and not with the same age group in the general population.
  5. Comparing suicide rates for the Army with that of the general population is bound to come up with misleading statistics.A&E wards across the country will be full today, as everyday, with those poor souls who have attempted suicide by overdose.There is a window of time in which it is possible to treat such people for the physical effects of that overdose.Many will recover(and many will do it again).However if the chosen method of suicide is shooting then there is no opportunity for saving them.If civpop had access to firearms as readily as soldiers do the suicide rate would be much higher than it is at present IMHO
  6. Hmmmmmmm

    Two went to the extreme lengths of getting dicked for guard duty :roll:
  7. chimera

    chimera LE Moderator

    Private Eye can hardly be described as objective reporting. The In the Back reporting team are rabidly anti-Establishment, and always quick to jump on the conspiracy theory bandwagon.

    It was Paul Foot (who died recently) who continued to write for the "In the Back" column in the Eye maintaining the innocence of James Hanratty (a convicted murderer executed in the 50s) long after contempory DNA forensics had confirmed his guilt.
  8. Dead on about the Hanratty spot, although IIRC what convicted him at the time was that he came off to the Jury as a Billy Big Bollocks, that got their goat and they potted him.

    Or rather, hung him. Either way, he lost the penalty shoot out..

    I read the Deepcut P/Eye thing and they were in pretty crusading kick the Establishment mode. Yes, the investigations were rubbish, by pretty much all concerned (SIB, Surrey cops) because they fell for the classic cop 'come to a conclusion, build the evidence to fit' formula and/or 'the other lot were rubbish, lets score some points, bugger getting to the truth'.

    Which is a shame, because at the end of the day, those kids (all under 20) were treated pretty shabbily and are dead. Which is bad. But put a load together and suddenly it looks like 'conspiracy' and 'cover-up reaching to the highest level' and the Army gets a kicking, recruitment drops off etc etc..

    Without question it appeared to be a shoddily run place, discipline had run down totally. That bloke on R4 today pointed out, quite rightly, that the RLC Trg being the least sexy was the bottom of the resource barrel, and it was allowed to slide. Demoralization leads to disillusionment of feckless youth, throw in weapons...... :(

    I'm not a particularly big fan of the In the Back crew, Hislop is a god-awful weasle, but they are putting the questions out there when the mainstream press have moved on. The conclusion was that the Blake report is a white-wash. But hey, you've all seen Yes Minister. The reason you have an inquiry is to come to they very conclusion the government wants.
  9. Didn't seem to me to say anything that hadn't been common knowledge before apart from interested parties calling for a public enquiry. Don't know what difference that would make.
  10. Having read it, I don't believe the Blake Report was a whitewash. It came up with a pretty rational and honest assessment of the truth and dispelled some of the more lurid theories that have abounded, so it was bound to disappoint some of the stirrers, but it was extremely well put together, and rather sad reading (as well, no doubt, as beingextremely uncomfortable for some of the bit players in the various episodes).

    I can't see what more can be learned from these events, either. But they have now achieved a notoriety in the media that no-one will ever believe - or want to believe - the real story, because minds are already made up
  11. thanks for the report ouyin.

    in which it states a) army suicide rate significantly lower (except male under 20) than that of uk general population, in direct refutation of private aye. "I wonder where they get their figures".

    b) overall army suicide rate is 14 per 100,000 per annum. nothing much different from comparable institutions overseas.

    i wonder thus at private eye's agenda, and from my medical days: i wonder why private eye have nothing to say about the sods who have to pick up the pieces? the decent people there no doubt are, at deepcut. like i was able to stop suicide some times, but not always. some people really do want to committ suicide, and chose to perform this violence upon themselves, in front of others. b*stard i thought, b*stard. i had worked so hard to try and keep him alive.
  12. Surrey police had primacy in all investigations. The SIB 'ghosted' and assisted where Surrey bill wanted them to. Blaming SIB is a total misnomer. Unfortunately by the time the MOD Press Office had caught up, the military had already lost the press battle.
  13. there is constant reference to the "independant weapons expert", is there any further detail on the man? Some of his conclusions seemed questionable (granted, I haven't seen the evidence).
  14. I have the article in front of me.

    Frank Swann is an independant ballistics expert according to the article and there is also reference to the German Federal Crime Bureau (BKA) who worked with the Surrey police.

    It is quite a sad article.
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