A nation as yet unbuilt

#1
Peter Preston in today's Guardian:

But because we persisted in thinking of al-Qaida as some disciplined "terrorist army" pitted against our armies, because we talked in conventional terms that seemed to turn this wreck of a non-state into a nation like any other, we thought that conventional tactics could work. They won't. They have no foundations.

Afghanistan is a nation yet unbuilt, a black hole of hope defying calculation. It kills outsiders; it kills the insiders who seek to rule it. Its great game, over generations, knows only failure; and the only way not to become a loser is to resolve - at last - not to play.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/23/afghanistan.foreignpolicy
 
#2
It is a convenient place to fight the Jihadi movement though. If we weren't fighting them in Helmand would we have to fight them in Leeds?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#3
EX_STAB said:
It is a convenient place to fight the Jihadi movement though. If we weren't fighting them in Helmand would we have to fight them in Leeds?
I suspect that we would be exporting that terror rather than fighting it. That fight might be taking place in Pakistan instead of Afghanistan. Lets face it without the US there is little for them to attack so perhaps they would be fighting to create a Muslim state at Home?
 
#4
EX_STAB said:
It is a convenient place to fight the Jihadi movement though. If we weren't fighting them in Helmand would we have to fight them in Leeds?
Do you actually have even the slightest clue of what you are talkiing about?

I feel Ugly just wasted effort explaining very well why that isn't the case.

"Fighting them there so we don't do it here, was an American slogan over Iraq long since disproved.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#5
Just a rehash of the anti communist crud they came out with in the 50's and 60's. It has some merits though, if you need an excuse or a political smokescreen to hide the shining white lie then it falls of the tongue so patriotically. Oddly enough I wonder if having stabilised communist encroachment with Korea did we really need to spend so much on defence and if that caused the recessions of the 1970's?
 
#6
PartTimePongo said:
EX_STAB said:
It is a convenient place to fight the Jihadi movement though. If we weren't fighting them in Helmand would we have to fight them in Leeds?
Do you actually have even the slightest clue of what you are talkiing about?

I feel Ugly just wasted effort explaining very well why that isn't the case.

"Fighting them there so we don't do it here, was an American slogan over Iraq long since disproved.
PTP I think there is some credence in what Ex Stab says, although of course the whole issue is rather chicken-in-white-sauce and egg banjoish. I do think that Afghanistan and Iraq fixes our assymetric opponents on strategic ground of our choosing where we can reign a full panoply of death and destruction on them relatively freely. Of course Ugly's assertion also has a ring of truth. In addition there is a certain self-interest in both UK and US military in being able to play with new toys in the sand-pit. Without Afghanistan (and Iraq, although the Chiefs have tried to ditch that one) how much more lamentable would the defence budget be?

uqfegd

pp
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#7
Not forgetting that big business requires wars to stimulate increased defence spending!
 
#8
'Afghanistan is a nation yet unbuilt, a black hole of hope defying calculation'........

Periodically invaded + perpetual internal strife.What hope has this country got, when it remains the opportunistic playground of warmongers and extremists ?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#9
Its a cesspit that no one wants yet no one seems to be able to resist playing gods with it!
Leave it in the middle ages where it belongs, if eventuallly its people decide to play ball they will come and ask to join in, till then shut the door and let them get on with it. There isnt one of these festering shoiteholes worth a British soldiers life!
 
#10
Hang on a minute......the Afghan people are not necessarily the driving force in it's conflict, (although tribal warfare hardly makes for stability)....look at it's geographical position.....a cross-roads between continents, Afgahnistan's been a main target for empires and migrant societies for ages....19-Century British Empire and Tsarist Russia to name two, not to mention the mainstay of Islamic influence.

Maybe it's people don't know how to 'play ball'- they're too busy being one for other nations.
 

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