A little snip - Unintended consequences

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by greenbaggyskin, Jul 6, 2012.

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  1. In the last week or so, a German court has ruled that the circumcision of infants, for anything other than medical reasons, is assault. This has led to a de-facto ban on the practice for religious reasons, which has caused a strange unified uproar on the part of the Moslem and Jewish communities.

    Circumcision: religious right or crime? - The Local

    If this sticks, there are a number of possible unintended outcomes that I can see. It is quite possible that Moslems and Jews will see Germany as place they do not want to live; there will be international hand-wringing that the Germans are picking on the Jews again or the disciples of the religion of peace will declare a Fatwah on everything German.

    I am especially amused by the Jewish point that it is described in the Bible (??) so it must be right.

    This small step might succeed where banning the burka didn't.
     
  2. Thread about it some days ago.
     
  3. If only they'd thought of that 80 yrs ago.
     
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  4. What happened was that a regional court had to make a decision which articles of our constitution take precedence (the case was started after a surgeon botched a circumcision of a Turkish boy and the parents brought the boy to another doctor. This doctor filed a complaint against his colleague after treating the boy):

    §2 : The right of free development of the personality, right of life and psychological and physical integrity

    §4: Freedom of religion

    and

    §6: The right of the parents to make decisions in the name of the child

    The court decided since a circumcision is irreversible §2 has precedence over the other articles. It also stated that freedom of religion also means the right of freedom FROM religion and that an irreversible decision like being circumcised has to be made by an adult.
     
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  5. It's a medical fact that it helps against the transmission of certain STDs & that there are lower incidents of cervical cancer in cultures which have adopted circumcision.
     
  6. Just to repeat it:
    The decision doesn´t ban circumcision per se. It just says that a (male) circumcision for religious reasons has to be the free decision of the person at legal majority. It can´t be taken by the parents.
    Circumcisions for medical reasons, e.g. in case of paraphimosis, can still be carried out.
     
  7. udipur

    udipur LE Book Reviewer

    Agreed, but there are also higher incidences of honour killings, hand choppings and human rights abuses. A fair amount of doctrinal bigotry also but that's not about freedom of choice for adults either, is it?
     
  8. Not too many reports in The Jewish Chronicle about that sort of thing happening in Israel.
     
  9. That's censorship of the state controlled press for you.
     
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  10. Alternatively they could pop next door to another country where it's not a crime?
     
  11. Rollocks none of my mates or I have stds are we're not chopped. Circumcision is nothing more than nullification of penis sensitivity in the name of absurd and primitive bullshit. Just cos some goon in the desert though it was a good idea to mutilate a kid's foreskin 2000 years ago doesn't mean there's an excuse for it today.

    It's like saying foot binding is great cos you get less verrucas or having big loopy holes in your ears is handy for carrying home the shopping. At the end of the day it's still a sick mutilation enforced upon children without their permission. Nature intended the human body to be made whole for a reason.
     
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  12. I've never read a study looking into that, that didn't show a lot of signs of data snooping.

    If you compare the STD rate in young beer-swilling secular folk who cheerfully bed-hop, with that of a bunch of middle aged religious fundies (I'm not saying the the fundies don't screw around, but they seem to stick to their own community, a closed pool of potential disease vectors), then of course you see a lower rate of std-transmission.

    The water is sadly greatly muddied by the American Pediatricians, who have a vested interest in being pro-circumcision, simply because they can tack $500 onto the hospital bill of every male baby who passes through their care as it's an additional elective procedure on top of the already mind-boggling prices US hospitals levy on childbirth.

    I cannot see an underlying mechanism whereby a circ'd wang is fundamentally more "disease proof" than one in it's natural state.
     
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  13. So the original doctor made a cock up, eh?
     
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  14. Good. Jews are as bad as Muslims and both should be discouraged from settling in civilised countries.
     
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