A little help Identifying an old shell fuse.

Discussion in 'Sappers' started by mad_jock, Aug 22, 2010.

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  1. This is from a thread on PPRune.

    Can anyone identify what this is? - Page 2 - PPRuNe Forums

    It was found in a display case in dorset.

    I reckon its an illum fuse.

    From the HA intials it was from the Danish Arsnel filled in 6/1946.

    I was thinking it was maybe a star shell fired from a ship and they hadn't bothered working out where the shell landed.

    I might add its been 20 years since I played at being a gun bunny on a KG6 comp and I haven't a clue how illum shells or mortars work.

    Any BDO's out there shed any light on the subject?

    Attached Files:

  2. M_J, it appears to be some form of igniferous time fuze. Judging by the photo of the base, it appears expended. I have dealt with a few of these, but can't remember the shell(s) that it is used with. Typically it will have been used with a carrier shell (smoke or illum).

    Hope this helps. If you have anything else needing identifying try posting in the RLC forum, as well, for the Ammo Techs.
  3. Cheers for that, that was my thinking as well. If we can give it another couple of days on this forum and if we can't solve it here maybe a kindly MOD can move it to save multiple postings across forums.
  4. Are you sure it isn't 16 instead of 46?
    Looks very much like an 18 pdr shrapnel bomb fuse I have sat on my desk here. Mine's from 1917 (yes, it has been made safe). If it is 46 then I'm amazed they were still making pretty much the same thing thirty years after the Great War.

    There's a thread or fifty on the Great War forum where you can see many example of these things posted as people often find them on the battlefield sites.

    Here's one of those threads
    Some pictures too.

    Here's one:

  5. The first pic shows it as a time fuze, the third pic gives it away as a pyrotechnic time fuze by the gas blow holes. They were very common ca WW1. Prolly a carrier N/E. Sandy will have the precise answer - and will prolly know the name of the guy that fired it too!
  6. Knowing Sandy he will have the name address and telephone number of the bloke who made it as well.
  7. Fuze Nose Time No80 (used on the 18pr) is similar in shape but the markings aren't correct in layout for a British land service fuze.

    HA can stand for Hadens and Sons Ltd, Newport, UK or Hastings, Nebraska, USA. If it was me I'd plump for the USA maker.

    IIRC Igniferous Time Fuzes were still in british service in the 1980's with the No 390 being used on 76mm and 105mm Tk Smk rds.

    The time fuze of this period was used on carrier shells as already stated. These shells could be Smoke, Illum, Shrapnel, Chemical or Propaganda with either a central burster (Shrap/Chem) or an base ejection charge (Smk. Illum, Prop). The shell could have been a 13, 17, 18or 25pr. The fuzes might have been used by the navy for their smaller calibres, but more likely army than navy.
  8. Sympathetic_Reaction

    Sympathetic_Reaction LE Book Reviewer

    There is a whole stack of similar fuzes still in stock (unfilled) at ROF Glascoed when I worked there....one of the old boys says they were still filling them in the 70's which backs up what Stinker said.

    Ingenious bit of kit considering.

  9. Right don't take the piss to much!!!

    That would fit in actually. The UOTC had Pack Howitzer when I intially joined then moved onto Light Guns. I can't remember which gun we fired them with. I just remember that twice we got 5 smoke rounds. One lot were just fired on the range and the other lot were used on a live fire exercise in Senny.

    The fuse shown after 20 years looks remarkably similar.

    Mind you I can't see a UOTC firing 120 HE and 5 smoke in a weekend these days. I might add I knew exactly how much ammo they were using as I was the borrowed 4 tonner driver that had to go and get it.
  10. The South (Central & West) branch of the Institute of Explosives Engineers, which has many members from the MOD and all three services, is visiting Glascoed (now run by BAe Systems) next month. Sadly, I won't be free to attend.
  11. Sympathetic_Reaction

    Sympathetic_Reaction LE Book Reviewer

    Should be a good visit, I assume that it is being hosted by Glen who has been there for donkey's years (retired last year but is still involved with the museum I think) if it is then he is the font of all knowledge on the site and most of the South Wales ROFs.

    Personally I think the old hidden corners were more interesting than the new stuff, but I assume they'll show round the IM filling plant as it is the new shiney building.

    I haven't been there in 2 years but it's an interesting place if you get the right guide and access to the right areas.

  12. It certainly looks like a No 80 Percussion and MT fuze. The fuze was a Krupp patent and after the Armistice, Krupp's lawyers registered a claim for royalties for those fuzes used in the Great War. Amazingly they were successful and so Krupp received a big pay-day, for ordnance that had predominantly been used on Germans!

    You couldn't make that sort of thing up - it makes the shooting party scene in Oh What a Lovely War look less like lefty agitprop and more like documentary!
  13. From it's shape this is a pre 1920 design, and is continental rather than British. UK igniferous time fuses from the 1920s onward were much more pointed, even for mortar smoke..

    Uk was producing igniferous time fuses for the 25lbr and 5.5 up to the 70s in the form of the 221B which had a bright blue/green nose. I think the the last runs of these were filled at Chorley rather than Glascoed, with the empty bodies being made at ROF Blackburn.. both long gone now of course...
  14. Fond memories of Chorley and Blackburn and the stories of the fuze ladies at Roman Road were amazing. Apparently they were all on piece work and had a 100 or so prox fuzes to knock out on their shift. However the time and motion had all been to cock and so they would regularly finish half way through their shift. After a while mattresses were brought in for a kip, then some commercially advanced young ladies realised they could be (as it were) earning "overtime" on the mattresses.

    These shifts were made up predominantly of brassy Lancashire lasses of a certain age. One Christmas they inveigled a commercial apprentice into popping his old chap into a milk bottle. They then erected him in the knowledge that his bell end would become wedged in the bottle. Sadly he panicked, tried to smash the bottle and many stitches later, he became less of a player in the sexual stakes! Though possibly ribbed for extra sensation?

    "Happy days, mucky nights" as we used to comment from corporate HQ at Chorley!
  15. Pic reminded me of 105 smoke round,if it was found in Dorset,maybe fired at RAC Gunnery School,Lulworth,Dorset?I'm sure an expert will prove me wrong.