Discussion in 'Multinational HQ' started by Trip_Wire, Mar 17, 2008.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP

    An article from a young Captain, in the US Army, describing why he is leaving the Army.

    After reading the article IMO the Army, may be better off losing this officer. He seems to me to place many things in his personal life, before his chosen profession. What happened to Duty, Honor and Country?



    (I Love It. But I Have To Leave It.)

    By John Rogers
    Sunday, March 16, 2008; Page B01

    I'm a captain in the U.S. Army, an institution I love and respect, and one that has made me a better man. The Army has taught me how to relate to people of various ethnic backgrounds and socioeconomic classes. It has taught me how to stay calm under fire and in other stressful situations (an especially handy lesson as my fiancee and I plan our wedding). It has taught me how to exact discipline and how to approach people with different personalities in different ways.

    Link to article:

  2. On reading the article, all I can say is good luck. A very eloquent article re the pros and cons of serving.

    He’s not in it (was not serving for the cash) for money but now, as a family man with a future, knows what comes first.

    Might be the fact that as an educated Officer he can realise that the War might, just be in the eyes of an intelligent person as unjustified.

    Get out now, with a good history and without passing on any bad feeling to the new men.

    Well done to him.
  3. And you, tripwire, sound (as always) like an {unnecessary personal insults deleted by moderator}
  4. scaryspice

    scaryspice LE Moderator

    Enough with the insults thank you - back to the subject of the article.

    He doesn't sound like a whiner who puts himself first to me. Possibly a slightly naive young man who didn't really think through his career path before signing on the dotted line, but not a whiner.
  5. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP


    As you can see, I have amended my opinion a little. Your statement above seems to say pretty much the same thing about him in a nicer way. :wink:

    To me, a person of his age and education, etc. should have had some idea that all the things he questions in the military, are an important part of the learning curve for any soldier and especially an officer that wants to lead men into combat, etc.

    Nobody wants to be away from their family; however, it's a regular part of life as a soldier, especially in these times. He needs to keep in mind that we are a Country at war.

    So, after reading his comments on these normal training and officer career development stuff, I thought he seemed to be whining a lot about personal issues that are a part of every soldiers life, in todays US Army.

    This is aside from his Iraq experience with the Iraqi police, etc. This wasn't a factor in my evaluation of him. IMO this issue should have been taken to the chain of command until it was resolved one way or the other.
  6. Seriously, who the fcuk do you think you are to question him? He did the job asked of him, decided that it wasn't for him in the long term and has decided to try his hand at something else. Just like 90% of people who put on the uniform

    Remember, you spent the overwhelming majority of your 30+ military career as a reservist during the Cold War.
  7. Exactly what I was going to say but with lots of {unnecessary personal insults deleted by moderator} :wink:

    It must be nice to sit in your easychair, Trip and spend all day surfing through the interweb just to chuck stuff up here in a 'Daily Mailesque' manner purely on the basis to judge people when you have done little more than guard the main gate of Lakenheath.

    The guys done his bit for real and made a judgement call. I wouldnt consider him to be a whinger, just a realist to be honest. Or was your intent to highlight his lack of kahooners at questioning the war in Iraqistan?
  8. scaryspice

    scaryspice LE Moderator

    I said ENOUGH with the personal insults. Can we please stick to the article and not degenerate into name-calling?

  9. I wasnt name calling, matron. I was actually very reserved. I'm just trying to understand Trips rationale towards the article. He posted it so it would be nice to understand his motives.
  10. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP


    Well let's see now.:

    1.) I'm a tax paying AMERICAN citizen, as such I have the right to do so. My taxes pay their salary. (Are you a tax paying AMERICAN citizen?)

    2.) As an AMERICAN citizen I have every right to question any aspect of my Government and it's Armed Forces, to include the quality of and commissioning of Officers, within our armed forces, etc.

    3.) As a Retired member of the US Army, I care about the quality of it's serving NCOs and Officers. As a Retiree, I can through various internal sources, exert some pressure to maintain the high standards of our serving NCOs and Officers as well as the Army in general.

    4.) I have every right, as a citizen of a free country, to have an opinion on any public news item and it's content, and to express such opinion where it is allowed.

    5.) I chose to open this thread in the 'Multinational HQ' thread for viewing and/or discussion on the subject. As far as I know, such types of discussions that evolve from such threads are allowed here on ARRSE, to include one's individual opinions, etc.


    6.) What gives you the right to question me, on my right to question a public article or have an opinion on such article printed in the media?

    Does that answer your question? :wink:

    BTW:Crab/TLF Don't overlook the fact, that I served in the Korean war in Infantry combat and was WIA.
  11. I don't think this is an Honour, Duty thing. Just a rather naive young man who has been hit with the reality of service life and, I suspect, a strong-willed wife. Probably the right decision for him and the US Army.

    Surprised the Washington Post gave it space.
  12. The Americas armed forces are at war . America is at the mall.
    Its Hard to see a way why he should stay in.
  13. mysteron

    mysteron LE Book Reviewer

    Erm, defeated by your own argument by me asking you the question:

    So what right that all that give you to force your US based opinions on UK Taxpayers? Last time I looked this is the British Army Unofficial Website.

    I am not against the Multinational forum and welcome it as a good source to discuss global military issues, but excuse me for not tolerating an attitude that says I am from this country and you better listen to me.... just because.

    Back on the article. I agree with Crabtatsic and TangoFowerAlpha. He did his service, he got out - he is being honest. I think he has done his bit.

  14. Edit: A former STAB NCO who got out of the game when the current crop of 3 & 4 stars (who have since been in 3 or 4 wars of their own) were company level officers? Fcuk me, and you accuse me of having an inflated sense of my own importance! Just because they invite you to the odd grab & grin every now and then, it doesn't mean they are actually listening to you as you bore them senseless.

    It's only a shame the North Koreans/Chinese weren't better shots. We know about your Korean War service, fcuk me, you bang on about it often enough whenever you don't have reasoned argument to back up your drivel. But think back, if you will, and ask yourself:

    1. How many of the people you served with decided they'd seen enough of war when that scrap ground to a stalemale?
    2. How many would have signed off during the korean war if it was ever an option presented to them?
    3. How many people's life priorities change during their lives? How many people leave the military because they want to get married and don't want to have to spend months/years at a time away from spouses and families or risk orphaning their kids?

    Officers sign off all the time because their career goal has been to lead men on operations. Once they've done that, a lot of them reach the conclusion- as this officer apparently has- that there's not much else the army can offer then that they can't find on the outside, for better pay, better conditions and lower risk.

    This officer has done his part. Good luck to him and fcuk you for judging him in such a way.
  15. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP


    I simply answered a question, asked by crabtastic.

    I'm not forcing anything on the UK taxpayer. I posted an article, read it or don't read it your choice.

    You had an opinion good! That's why the article was posted. As has been said many times before here on ARRSE, everybody has an opinion and the right to express it.

    It would appear that Crabtastic, has chosen to ignore my answers to his question and go off on another tangent. (He seems to do that a lot.)

    So, since I have answered his question and IMO outlined what I thought (Read opinion.) of the article and the officer, who was the cause of the article I see no reason to go beyond this point and turn it into another slagging match, etc. I see no merit in that. So, this will be my last comment here on this article and it's subject matter.

    I'm sure that there will be many opinions offered here on the officer in question as well as my opinion or the opinions of others. Great that's why the article was posted! It would be nice if posters stuck with the thread though. :wink: