A clear message on the legitimacy of torture

#1
Wonder how this will play on Al-Jazeera?

Wonder what would have happend to a British soldier?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4642596.stm

Iraq general's killer reprimanded

A US officer who faced up to three years in jail for killing a captured Iraqi general has been punished with a reprimand and a $6,000 fine.
Chief Warrant Officer Lewis Welshofer Jr was convicted last week of the negligent homicide of Maj Gen Abed Hamed Mowhoush in 2003.

Prosecutors said Gen Mowhoush was tied, placed headfirst in a sleeping bag and died with an officer sitting on him.

Welshofer has thanked his military "family" for supporting his defence.

"The military is a family when you get right down to it," he told a TV station in the US state of Colorado, according to the AFP news agency.

"I can't thank them enough for their support," he said.

The jury in Welshofer's court martial trial said he must receive a reprimand for his actions and ordered him to forfeit $6,000 of his salary.

He was also ordered to be confined to his base and place of worship for 60 days.

Before being sentenced, Welshofer apologised for his actions and pleaded with the jury not to send him to jail.

The jury of six army officers had found Welshofer not guilty of the murder of Mowhoush in 2003 - a charge that could have seen the married father-of-three jailed for life.

He was found guilty of the lesser charges of negligent homicide and dereliction of duty, which carry a jail term of up to three years.

After the sentencing, Welshofer's lawyer, Frank Spinner, was quoted by the Associated Press news agency as saying: "When you send our men and women over there to fight... you've got to give them enough room to make mistakes without treating them like criminals."

Mowhoush was one of several prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan whose deaths were under investigation by the US military.

He died while being held at al-Qaim in Iraq, near the Syrian border.

A death certificate published by the Pentagon gave the cause as asphyxia due to smothering and chest compression.
 
#2
What to say other then the US has established acceptable limits for Rendition of every US soldier captured in wars to come.
john
 
#3
I raised this issue a couple of days ago, and the point that amazed me was the following statement from the defence lawyer

“The verdict reflects the context in which these events took place,” Frank Spinner, his lawyer, said.

“The jury recognised confusion about the rules that govern interrogation.”
How can the verdict reflect the context???

He suffocated a man in a sleeping bag, wether deliberately or by mistake. He must take the punishment.
 
#4
jonwilly said:
What to say other then the US has established acceptable limits for Rendition of every US soldier captured in wars to come.
john
Jonw - don't think it needed this incident to do that. I think we can expect any fanatic aka fundamentalist group to summarily execute any US soldier who comes into their hands. This attitude will outride financial or politicial benefits from ransom demands etc.
 
#5
Yes Agree.
I was thinking of all the wars to come, the US has lost the High Moral Ground.
The Politicos have decided.
And who will pay the price GI Joe, Tom.
john
 
#6
OldRedCap said:
Jonw - don't think it needed this incident to do that. I think we can expect any fanatic aka fundamentalist group to summarily execute any US soldier who comes into their hands. This attitude will outride financial or politicial benefits from ransom demands etc.
and the problem being, we get lumped together with the Septics, so what goes for them goes for us too.

$6000 ffs you get more for traffic offences. :evil:
 
#7
There's the possibility that the judge was hoping that this p1ssweak sentence would send a message to the powers at be to get their house in order with regard to the rules and their enforcement by the chain of command, right the way up to the Joint Chiefs and SECDEF. (Remember that public spat between Rummy and the Chairman at a press conference over the duty of a serviceman that witnessed torture?) There's also confusion over the Signing Statement that accompanied the passage of the McCain Amendment.

On the other hand, I was under the impression that the UCMJ and standing orders were pretty unequivocal when it came to this sort of thing and that the McCain Amendment sought to make the rest of the US government conform with the military's rules and regs. If so, then the guy should have had the fcuking book thrown at him.

On a related note, it's good to see that the spams have a sense of perspective when it comes to sentencing:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060125/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_gays

Killing a Prisoner of War: $6000, a slap on the wrists, 2 months in a barrack block and "Bad boy, don't do that again."
A female MO who has a penchant for playing subbuteo: "Get in the unemployment line, deviant!" :roll:
 
#8
Fuchs66 said:
OldRedCap said:
Jonw - don't think it needed this incident to do that. I think we can expect any fanatic aka fundamentalist group to summarily execute any US soldier who comes into their hands. This attitude will outride financial or politicial benefits from ransom demands etc.
and the problem being, we get lumped together with the Septics, so what goes for them goes for us too.

$6000 ffs you get more for traffic offences. :evil:
getting away with murder, no more, no less.....
 
#9
Another interesting issue highlighted in the debate in parilment was the issue of UK Troops handing over prisoners to third parties.

Dr. Julian Lewis (New Forest, East) (Con): When British forces come into contact with terrorist suspects in Afghanistan, as the Secretary of State has conceded they surely will, to whom will those suspects be handed over, by whom will they primarily be interrogated, and in which countries will those interrogations take place?
If as this thread suggests that there is a disconnect in US policy between the Military and Politician. Are British forces personnel at risk of action in the ICC if they were to hand over a detainee to another party who is 'alledgelly' already at best abusing if not torturing prisioners?
 

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