A Cavalry Sword On An East Kent's Grave

soleil

War Hero
BBC South-East haven't yet added the clip of the restorer and his work as a separate clip, but you can still see him in the middle of yesterday's news programme.

The item starts just after 4 minutes into the programme.
 
What does that symbolise?


It shows that someone cares enough to pay their respects, either family, friend of interested visitor. If you look around a Jewish burial ground, all the graves will have stones on them, and the Jewish soldiers memorial in the national memorial in staffordshire, has some, my mother and i both visited in memory of our family members who served in both world wars.
 
Thank you to all of you who have contributed to this thread, your comments have been immensely useful and we are very grateful for them.

The restoration of Edwin's grave has been completed during the last few days.

Over the weekend, we have written a small piece about Edwin which incorporates not only things which we have discovered but also the comments which were made on the thread.

If anything in the piece reads oddly, do feel free to say so.
Hello There,

May I please offer a huge thankyou to the talented restorer who has transformed my Gt Grandfathers (Col Serg Edwin Corrie Ongley, Brenchley) gravestone; it is utterly remarkable & means so very much.

May I also ask which member of the family you contacted regarding this work, I am delighted that you located someone who agreed.

Sincere thanks to you,

Dee .
 
An interesting surname to research - as Edwin must have enlisted into the 'new' E Kent Regt at the time of the Childers Reform, his Regimental number was 19 (!).

His son, however, is worthy of research in his own right.

Alfred Victor Ongley was born in 1895 and, it would seem, was keen to follow his father into The Buffs. Whilst the 1911 Census shows him as a 'Errand Boy' it is obvious that as soon as he was of age he was off to the Regiment.

In September 1914, LCpl Ongley entered France with the 1st Bn The Buffs. Obviously a good and steady soldier, 1916 saw Cpl Ongley's name appear in the London Gazette:

View attachment 512660

Albert not only survived the war but continued to serve, certainly up to the late 30s as WOII Ongley appears on the GSM Medal Roll for the 'PALESTINE' clasp:

View attachment 512661

. . . and, at that point, disappears from view.
Hello There,

Thankyou for posting the info on Alfred Victor Ongley, he was my Gt Uncle.
May I ask which edition of The Gazette he was mentioned, I have a copy of the DCM notification.

I do hope you wont mind this imposition.

Many Thanks

Dee.
 
Hello There,
Many thanks for your response; sadly, I have no info on Alfred Victor other than he passed away aged 60 in 1959/60.
As with my Gt Grandfather I didnt meet Uncle Alf but feel incredibly proud to have him in my family, I cant imagine the fear of combat & applaud all our wonderful, brave, military....
just wish governments wouldnt keep making problems that they then have to sort out!.

Thanks again I do so appreciate your info.

Regards
Dee.
Dee, glad that you found this thread useful and are you able to provide any more information on him?
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
What does that symbolise?
its part of the Jewish act of Kaddish, you leave a stone to signify you have visited your loved ones and recited the prayer
Many Jewish people bring small stones from Israel, in fact last time I managed to get some mail order when visiting a long dead relatives grave
it is thought to date back to early times when a loved one would be prepared for the journey, washed and wrapped in a shroud , and then the body would be placed in the ground, covered with soil and stones to prevent wild animals digging them up, or people walking across the grave, over time relatives would add more stones on each visit
Some elderly Jews, pull up tufts of grass and throw it over their shoulders, this I was told is to signify the resurrection

I have seen the same thing in the Shetlands on Viking Graves, large Cairns built atop the resting place

I find it a rewarding sight to see that the person is still loved and cared for
 
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No idea on the actual symbolism but it seems to be a more permanent version of flowers at the graveside.

When walking around Commonwealth graves it was easy to spot the Jewish gravestones as they had stones balanced on top.

Oskar Schindler is buried on Mount Zion in Israel. There was a poignant real life scene at the end of the film where many of the Jews who owed their lives to his shielding them from the Nazis during the war were shown at his graveside filing past and each person placing a small stone on his grave.

To me, it added a stark sense of reality to what those people went through and what he did to manage to save so many of them as you watched them paying their respects to Schindler.
 
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QRK2

LE
Oskar Schindler is buried on Mount Zion in Israel. There was a poignant real life scene at the end of the film where many of the Jews who owed their lives to his shielding them from the Nazis during the war were shown at his graveside filing past and each person placing a small stone on his grave.

To me, it added a stark sense of reality to what those people went through and what he did to manage to save so many of them as you watched them paying their respects to Schindler.


Reminiscent of this:

 
Thats not a cavalry sword, which in the time period would be the straight-blade 1908/12 pattern.

Depending upon artistic licence, it could be an 1822 light cavalry pattern - as used by the Royal Artillery to this day.

I'm inclined to think, though, that this must be whatever pattern the Buffs used for the SNCOs of their colour party and band.
@ZW Clanger why the negative?
 

DITA

MIA
There is a small military section in my village church. Standard Portland stone regimental headstones. Part of the village has grown up around what was a classic old red brick barracks, now apartments, so the village church served the small garrison.
There are two Royal Corps of Signals graves, both different dates, but both mid 1970s, so not all that long ago. I often wondered what their story was. Neither are on the National Memorial at NMA, so I guess not died on operations, but why weren't they taken 'home' for burial. Don't know why but it just interests me.

My understanding that if the death of a Service Person is attributed to service, then their name is recorded on the NMA. I base this on the fact my dad's name is on the wall. He was killed while training for an Army Cycling race, on duty, attributed to service.

It is possible that the two Service Persons died of natural causes, unattributed hence their non-inclusion on the NMA?
 
My understanding that if the death of a Service Person is attributed to service, then their name is recorded on the NMA. I base this on the fact my dad's name is on the wall. He was killed while training for an Army Cycling race, on duty, attributed to service.

It is possible that the two Service Persons died of natural causes, unattributed hence their non-inclusion on the NMA?
That's interesting. Thank you. If anything it adds to the question of why two men, neither of whom appear to be local, should end up buried beneath military headstones in a country churchyard, rather than being returned to their home towns. Their deaths were only around 40 years ago, so it's not like transport would have been difficult. Maybe, and it's just speculation, they had married locally so this was now 'home'.
 
Thats not a cavalry sword, which in the time period would be the straight-blade 1908/12 pattern.

Depending upon artistic licence, it could be an 1822 light cavalry pattern - as used by the Royal Artillery to this day.

I'm inclined to think, though, that this must be whatever pattern the Buffs used for the SNCOs of their colour party and band.
Only aware of the RSM carrying one, but that was an earlier time and perhaps it was a regimental tradition?
Very nice of his family to remember him that way, anyway.
 
Good People tend to act without wanting the glamour and accolades, they do their work quitley for the good of their fellow man
Such as this Japanese Man , Chiune Sugihara



Keeping quiet to avoid the Kempeitai too.
Here, the Cebu Normal High School was the Kempeitai headquarters for this area of the Philippines. Basement considered to be haunted. It was a busy place after the Japanese defeat in the Battle of the Philippine Sea just to keep the populace in check with fear.

God bless you Chiune Sugihara
 
Only aware of the RSM carrying one, but that was an earlier time and perhaps it was a regimental tradition?
Very nice of his family to remember him that way, anyway.
Hi Andy,

Many Thanks for your welcome response re: Edwin Corrie Ongley, he was my Gt Grandfather.

I am sure he went to Hythe for some training in Explosives, he was referred to in some paperwork as "RSM" after this training.

I am afraid I cant shed any light on this but my goodness I am so proud of him, relatives & anyone who serves in our amazing military!.

Thankyou again for your kind response
Dee.
 

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