A Call to KevinB - Come and enlighten us.

#21
Espousing an entirely opposing viewpoint in a forum where you are nigh on guaranteed to meet largely with abject hostility could be described as foolish, and yet, how pleasant it would be if we could opine intelligently and in a civilised fashion. Generally, I love the sense of humour I've found at this place, but I do, no doubt naively, wish for a more rational approach to such issues. I'm in complete agreement with MDN's views here.
 
#22
Flashman07 said:
It seems to me like KevinB was just a walt really. Maybe we should concentrate less on him and more on if there are any other users on ARRSE who feel the Republic/IRA cause was justified orwere activists or just sympathise with it. Let them explain their point of view, which will be rightly open to (harsh?) criticism, rather than fixate on one person who has seemingly disappeared from the forums.
He posted yesterday and at 01:12hrs today. :roll:
 
#23
Flashman07 said:
It seems to me like KevinB was just a walt really. Maybe we should concentrate less on him and more on if there are any other users on ARRSE who feel the Republic/IRA cause was justified orwere activists or just sympathise with it. Let them explain their point of view, which will be rightly open to (harsh?) criticism, rather than fixate on one person who has seemingly disappeared from the forums.
Fair point.

In my time in A&SH loads of the guys were "Tims" - biggest shock of my life wasn't the "bash bash get back!!".

It was the smoker!! The rebel songs n such like (i'd grown up with) to hear them sung with gusto by us in the A&SHwas the shocker!!

Their tribute to the "enemy" made for many angreat piss up - but many of them were "Tims".

It's aw bollocks mate - you'll standy by ter mates!! Simple.

It's aw tribal..

But does the tribe pay yer rent at the end of the day?? :D
 
#24
Morrigana said:
Espousing an entirely opposing viewpoint in a forum where you are nigh on guaranteed to meet largely with abject hostility could be described as foolish, and yet, how pleasant it would be if we could opine intelligently and in a civilised fashion. Generally, I love the sense of humour I've found at this place, but I do, no doubt naively, wish for a more rational approach to such issues. I'm in complete agreement with MDN's views here.
Morrig'

As Voltaite opined; I might not..

Gawn yersel..... :D Freedom of speech mate
 
#25
Bugsy said:
Airfix said:
I'm lucky enough to be in the 5% of the outraged that remembers troops being given tea in catholic areas after Tony Benn sent the troops in in 1969 to protect the rights of the catholic minority. But when did the cups of tea stop? After the hard men started killing soldiers, or when the hard men turned the screw on their 'own' people for not fully support the 'cause'?
Airfix, I know this may sound strange, but many folks in the ROI actually welcomed the deployment of British troops in Norn Iron as the right thing to do under the circumstances. That included my Grandda, who not only fought from 1914 to 1918 in the British Army, but was also a member of the “proper” IRA (and the IRB before that) and fought in the Irish Civil War. Although he added the caveat: “Iz long iz dey don’ send dem fuggin’ Blag ‘n’ Dans, udderwise as Oi’ll be up dere mesel’ an’ give ‘em what for, da barstids!”

I was actually serving when The Troubles kicked off (I joined in 1966) and initially all of us Micks in the British Army, and loads of others besides, contributed to the financial support of the IRA in Norn Iron. That turned to disillusionment in the early Seventies when it became apparent that they were intent on wreaking revenge for the Easter Uprising and also targeting the wrong people. So I suppose you could say that I was also an IRA supporter, at least for a time.

MsG
Nice post and an interesting viewpoint.

Like many that have dipped our toes into the background of the Troubles, I have nothing but contempt for the way in which the Northern Irish government treated catholics with contempt and disgust. I firmly believe had it not been for their represive policy of discrimination in the work place and in housing, the Troubles may never had happened, thus saving thousands of lives. It's a crying shame that a south east asian style hearts and minds operations was undertaken to redress the housing and work situation. But I'm not that foolish to believe both side could have been brought to the table in the period '69/'71 to achieve 'peace' and certainly not after '71.

I reserve my 'childish' vitrol' for the terrorist on both sides and the 'hard men' who saw the Troubles as a way to make a good living off the sufferings of others!
 
#27
bovvy said:
Flashman07 said:
It seems to me like KevinB was just a walt really. Maybe we should concentrate less on him and more on if there are any other users on ARRSE who feel the Republic/IRA cause was justified orwere activists or just sympathise with it. Let them explain their point of view, which will be rightly open to (harsh?) criticism, rather than fixate on one person who has seemingly disappeared from the forums.
He posted yesterday and at 01:12hrs today. :roll:
:oops: my bad
 
#28
So with what Bugsy wrote, is it plausible that someone with a begging bowl / collection tin might be able to motivate people enough to contribute to that cause ?

Use me for an example... I collect cash for what I paint to be a worthwhile cause. In reality I use the money to buy Herion and sell it at huge profit, but continue to mislead you the donator what I am collecting for?

Would you be guilty of supporting the drugs trade?

Had a PM from KevinB....... He is currently on the road but will look at this tonight US time.
 
#29
Mighty_doh_nut said:
So with what Bugsy wrote, is it plausible that someone with a begging bowl / collection tin might be able to motivate people enough to contribute to that cause ?

Use me for an example... I collect cash for what I paint to be a worthwhile cause. In reality I use the money to buy Herion and sell it at huge profit, but continue to mislead you the donator what I am collecting for?

Would you be guilty of supporting the drugs trade?

Had a PM from KevinB....... He is currently on the road but will look at this tonight US time.
Good point! And it does raise the specter of just how 'naive' were donators to NORAID in the US and was there a corporate PR plan that encouraged collectors to mislead donators as to the destination of their donations.

Can anyone answer me this (without myself going to Google), did NORAID actualy give any funds for community based projects/charities ('real' good causes in other words)?
 
#30
Well done to Airfix and MDN on setting up this thread.
I am surprised that not many people knew the initial reason for troops being deployed to NI during the 'civil rights' protests. It was certainly taught in Army in the Contemporary World at EPC and EPC(A).
I come from an Irish family although I myself was born and brought up in London. My paternal grandparents were both from Londonderry and Granda was the most bigotted pig ignorant Orangeman you have ever met. He only ever recognised three pieces of music: God Save The Queen, The Sash and the Londonderry Aire (Danny Boy to you). My maternal grandparents were Catholic, mainly from Donegal and were far more open and generous in their views than Granda.
One of my questions to Kevin is: Are you more a republican than a Catholic? By this I mean do you embrace republicanism from a purely political standpoint, much as any citizen of any republic would or is it that you wish to live in a Catholic country so would be quite happy to live in a Catholic constitutional monarchy such as Spain?
Thanks


Edited to add: Granda always called it 'Derry in speech. He says it was always called that by both sides for ease of speaking much as Kingston-upon-Hull is just called Hull.
 
#31
Airfix said:
Good point! And it does raise the specter of just how 'naive' were donators to NORAID in the US and was there a corporate PR plan that encouraged collectors to mislead donators as to the destination of their donations.

Can anyone answer me this (without myself going to Google), did NORAID actually give any funds for community based projects/charities ('real' good causes in other words)?
I spent a little over 2 years in Chicago in the early Eighties and the collecting was in full swing. A lot of the (selective) information given to the Septic pseudo-Micks was about the times in Ireland between 1918 and 1922 – a period in which neither side actually covered themselves with glory. However, you must remember that a lot of the Septic collectors took the word of other, real, Micks from the Six Counties (who should have known better) on good faith and collected on that basis. So I don’t think the contributors were necessarily naive, but certainly misinformed and intent on "righting a wrong", if you see what I mean.

There were some collections to ostensibly provide alternative accommodation for Catholic families forced out of their homes by Loyalists and to support them financially, but by far the most dosh was collected by directly appealing for funds to buy arms and ammo. For some reason, a lot of Septics found this sort of romantic, probably because they’d had much the same problem with the same gobment a couple of hundred years previously.

Then along I came with info about the period in question straight from the nag’s gob (not that me Grandda looks like a horse, but you know what I mean) and folks started asking me questions about the whole complex. In turn, they then turned to the collectors and demanded to know why they’d been led up the garden path. I know that a lot of them became very critical after that and wanted to make sure that their dosh was being used for the right causes, and not to just finance the twisted and outdated dreams of a few die-hards.

MsG
 
#32
Very interesting views on the whole tin rattling and collecting thing, however, its a bit dull this whole thread if KevinB isnt going to pop his head above the parapet and join in and I cant see him doing it either.
 
#33
Bugsy, thanks for your ealier comments. I accept what you say about the religious discrimination that was taking place (at virtually all levels and especially in the political area with gerrymandering)) prior to Civil Rights, however I think that the Terrorist campaign actually caused that gulf to widen and in the eyers of many actually justified the discrimination, certainly increased distrust and probably caused the whole situation to worsen.
Difficult to say now, as times have changed so much, what the right thing to do, would have been. Certainly attacking the soldfiers of the day - who had been sent in to provide the required civil protection and authority, was not the answer. We were not trained for that role in those days and actually became part of the problem, rather than part of the solution. Perhaps the Civil rights Movement had not gone far enough before it was taken over (or overtaken?) by the re-emergent IRA. These two groups actually had little in common outside religion, my view being that one saw the other as a convenient vehicle to further their own lawless campaign; to reunite the island of Ireland.
Interesting now to wonder if you were to reunite the North and South what the net effect would be?
Where are the best roads, railways, ferry and Airport Links?
Which would be the principal city based on infrastructure, business and facilities?
Grist to the milll!!
 
#35
jack-daniels said:
Bugsy, did you get grief for contributing to the 'cause' or did you do it on the QT?
On the contrary, Jack, it was all done in the open and above board. It wasn't just us Micks who contributed either; there were many, many others in the British Army who could equate with the plight of the Catholics in the Six Counties and wanted to help.

MsG
 
#36
Bugsy said:
jack-daniels said:
Bugsy, did you get grief for contributing to the 'cause' or did you do it on the QT?
On the contrary, Jack, it was all done in the open and above board. It wasn't just us Micks who contributed either; there were many, many others in the British Army who could equate with the plight of the Catholics in the Six Counties and wanted to help.

MsG
Well I never! Learn something new every day. Ta.
 
#37
Bugsy said:
jack-daniels said:
Bugsy, did you get grief for contributing to the 'cause' or did you do it on the QT?
On the contrary, Jack, it was all done in the open and above board. It wasn't just us Micks who contributed either; there were many, many others in the British Army who could equate with the plight of the Catholics in the Six Counties and wanted to help.

MsG
Was the a gradual changing of minds/hearts ref those giving cash to helpout 'back home' or a single action, terrorist or other that put a stop to it?
 
#38
Iff there was any justice in this world both the Chicago and New York PD would be on the terrorist list. THe timing of the Good Friday and 911just alow the Irish fund raisers not to be on the list. it stinks.
 
#39
I do believe the NORAID donations were well meant even if misguided.

Open source would suggest that in the 70's they collected around $100,000 a month which at that time was considerable $1.2 million a year for thirty years is $36 mill (remaining very very conservative, assuming no fluctuation in donations and currency value (which we know has gone up dramatically)).

I fail to see where the money truly went. Bearing in mind the most succesful weaponry utilised by PIRA was home made and relatively cheap they had no need to own 170'000 AK's which can be bought cheeply in africa and the middle east.

I would imagine that much of the donations are still in a bank account somewhere, especially since we know PIRA recently got their hands on 26 million from Northern Bank. There must be an incredible ammount of money in SF coffers which may have been meant for other purposes but have been redirected into stagnation.
 
#40
Airfix said:
Bugsy said:
jack-daniels said:
Bugsy, did you get grief for contributing to the 'cause' or did you do it on the QT?
On the contrary, Jack, it was all done in the open and above board. It wasn't just us Micks who contributed either; there were many, many others in the British Army who could equate with the plight of the Catholics in the Six Counties and wanted to help.

MsG
Was the a gradual changing of minds/hearts ref those giving cash to helpout 'back home' or a single action, terrorist or other that put a stop to it?
Actually, it was loads and loads of reports coming from the Six Counties, and also via the ROI, that the IRA was intent on railroading folks into freeing the country of the Brit "invaders". The motto was: "If you're Catholic, you're for a United Ireland", without giving anybody much of a choice in the matter.

This started much earlier than most folks realise, about the end of '69, and had reached just about everybody by the very early Seventies, in spite of Bloody Sunday.

MsG
 

Latest Threads

Top