A Black or a Female?

A Black or a Female?

  • Obama

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Clinton

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#1
Whom would arssers support at a Sep caucus - some members may even be attending - if forced onto the Democrat ticket? There were amusing lemon faces in the Clinton camp after Iowa. Even the women abandoned Hilary for Barack Hussein Obama, Jr.

Barack Obama understands exactly the powerful thread of historical redemption for America that is wrapped up in his campaign. Indeed in his stirring victory speech he called his win "a defining moment in history".

This would sound ridiculously self-important coming from any other candidate. But every American understands intuitively what he's talking about; he extends America's tragic narrative of slavery and segregation and discrimination and converts it into something hopeful, something that announces that we are, finally, becoming a different and better country.

Grauniad
Early days, of course. But has Bush driven America so far to the left that ground is now open even for the non-liberal left? Could the Seps really elect a black President, whose middle name is Hussein, later this year?
 
#2
fcuking petty of them if they dont just because his middle name is hussein, but then again it is the bloody septics, And if they elect nanna clinton she will die before her term is up, nothing worse than a women with power.
 
#3
To be fair to him he doesn't play the race card very often and targets a wide audience unlike Jesse Jackson who used it at every opportunity and had a mainly ethinic audience.
 
#4
Hilary or Barack both bad news for the USA. Here's hoping for a rerun of the grassy knoll......
 
#6
When I first heard Obama was standing I thought: "Lordy, the Yanks will never elect a black. He'll just use his candidacy to drive black issues up the political agenda, like Jessie Jackson did."

But there's this:

In the last 50 years the number of white people who said they would not vote for a black presidential candidate has nosedived from 53% to just 6%.

Source
Plus the fact that the US right of centre probably hates uppity women even more than uppity blacks. With a black you can keep him the other side of the railway tracks, exclude him from your children’s school (usually), stuff him into jail, get him killed in the army, etc.

But even jocks have mothers. So an uppity female is much more threatening. Presumably Obama's advisors know this and will play on it. But it’s an interesting political phenomenon: how racism goes less deep than women-hatred.
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#9
There's an op-ed piece in the Guardian which makes some interesting points about why Clinton is just as much a turn off as Bush:
Hillary is the candidate of retribution, not hope

Behind all of this there surely lies something else. Many mainly middle-aged and elderly Democrats see the 2008 election in almost Manichean terms. They don't merely want to send a Democrat to the White House. They want to get their own back on the Republicans for eight years of George Bush. They want to be vindicated at last for their past sufferings. And although not unaware of the Clintons' failings, they find it all too easy to set these failings to one side and are ready to rally behind Hillary as their generational avenging angel.

The problem for these Democrats is that so many of their potential voters don't actually think this way. These other voters - younger and more independent, and indeed more female - approve of bipartisanship and less polarised politics, but they see Hillary as a barrier to such an approach. They cannot wait for Bush to go, but they do not want to spend the next four or eight years refighting the battles of the Nineties or the Noughties. They are less invested in the Clintons. They are ready, in short, to move beyond not just the Bush years but the Clinton years as well. For them, Obama's relentless message of change and a new start - banal at times but eloquently expressed in his victory speech in Des Moines - resonates far more than another call to arms against the old enemy.

In a recent article in the Atlantic Monthly that reads very presciently post-Iowa, the libertarian conservative writer Andrew Sullivan expressed this dramatically. Obama's candidacy, Sullivan argued, could be transformational for America. It is the only candidacy in this contest that offers America the chance of calling a truce on the culture wars that have prevailed since Vietnam and on which every presidential election since 1968 has been fought out.

And if that is right, then the 2008 election may yet be a watershed. If it takes the form of a Clinton-Giuliani contest it will simply intensify the toxic cycle of the past 40 years and all the demeaning Ann Coulter-Michael Moore stuff that it spawns. But if it takes a less traditionally partisan form, especially in the form of a now not inconceivable Obama-McCain contest, American politics may at last be able to wrench itself out of the destructive confrontationism of the recent past. As I argued last week when discussing Ronald Brownstein's important new book, this is a prize massively worth winning.
 
#10
Anyone know if Barack Obama has ever served in the forces? I know that was a criticism of Hilary Clinton as she is/was expecting to be the commandering chief.
 
#11
They are ready, in short, to move beyond not just the Bush years but the Clinton years as well.
That makes sense. The Clintons are old hat. So is the Ann Coulter-Michael Moore culture war stuff. Crashing bore.
 
#12
Strange, isn't it? The idea of a woman (particularly that Clinton harridan) as President, or a black, or a bottom-feeler gives me the .303 depression/redmist again, but none of the candidates (Dem or Rep) would give me as much confidence as Condoleezza Rice in the post.


Edited for gay/black/feminist spelling.
 
#13
Actually Annakey, as a devout loather of anything PC I think your thread title offensive. Obama does not define himself as black, but as a talented individual wanting to work for everyone. Clinton would define herself as anything you want her to be so long as you vote for her.

You insult all black chaps and all women. Shame on you.
 
#15
mushroom said:
Actually Annakey, as a devout loather of anything PC I think your thread title offensive. Obama does not define himself as black, but as a talented individual wanting to work for everyone. Clinton would define herself as anything you want her to be so long as you vote for her.

You insult all black chaps and all women. Shame on you.
Consider yourself lucky, oh PC_Mushroom. I almost called it "Uppity Black or Raging Harridan?"





:lol:

mushroom said:
Obama does not define himself as black, but as a talented individual wanting to work for everyone.
Oh come on. I've heard him go on and on and on on national TV about his Kenyan father and Jewish mum. What's that if not "defining" himself?
 
#16
Whiskybreath said:
Strange, isn't it? The idea of a woman (particularly that Clinton harridan) as President, or a black, or a bottom-feeler gives me the .303 depression/redmist again, but none of the candidates (Dem or Rep) would give me as much confidence as Condoleezza Rice in the post.


Edited for gay/black/feminist spelling.
Good to see the Tuppence Licker Support Network make their presence known. :wink: Anyway, La Rice is a non-starter due to her proximity to Bush.
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
stacker1 said:
Anyone know if Barack Obama has ever served in the forces? I know that was a criticism of Hilary Clinton as she is/was expecting to be the commandering chief.
As far as I can tell, the only candidate, Democrat or GOP, with any military service is Republican Senator John McCain who was famously a Viet Nam war PoW.
 
#18
Well I used to think Condi displayed a very sure touch and sound judgement. Up until she took a shine to Jack Straw. :)
 
#19
The only problem I have with Obama is his lack of experience on the international stage.

I think he'd be great for dealing with social issues, and one could argue that rather than trying to bomb the world safe for Christians everywhere, the U.S. should be cleaning out their own house.

But I just can't seem to get a handle on his ideas for dealing with the Middle East or BRIC. I don't know if we can afford to have someone too naive or idealistic making decisions about Iraq, especially after...well, you know.

On the other hand, Hillary scares me. I just get the sense that she's acting out some revenge fantasy or long-standing sense of entitlement, and that's a bad reason to want to run the country.
 
#20
TankiesYank said:
The only problem I have with Obama is his lack of experience on the international stage.

I think he'd be great for dealing with social issues, and one could argue that rather than trying to bomb the world safe for Christians everywhere, the U.S. should be cleaning out their own house.

But I just can't seem to get a handle on his ideas for dealing with the Middle East or BRIC. I don't know whether we can afford to have someone too naive or idealistic making decisions about Iraq, especially after...well, you know.

On the other hand, Hillary scares me...I just get the sense that she's acting out some revenge fantasy or long-standing sense of entitlement, and that's a bad reason to want to run the country.
Here's the bald Obama Iraq policy. He opposed the war from the start, unlike Hilary.

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/#bring-home
 

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