9 mm L7A1

#1
Anoraks on, chaps.

Attached is a photo of a box of 9 mm L7 A1 ammunition made by Hirtenberger. This stuff is hot! It does about 1345 fps out of a glock, and has a 124 grain bullet.

Is it British issue? Is L7 A1 the "new" designation for Mk.2z? is it something different?

Has anyone seen this stuff in service?
 

Attachments

#4
in the Police firearms blah, we only use 95 grain 9MM ammunition, and we can't use FMJ ( full metal jacket) but have to use JSP ( jacketed soft point)
to avoid over penetration. The fully jacketed stuff is supposed to be used in the H&K MP5 as it is longer and prevents stoppages. There is other ammunition about for "other " jobs, but I'd hear a knock on the door if I posted details here..
 
#5
Hello,

"Department of the Treasury
ATF Office of Public Information

For Immediate Release FY-97-6
Contact: Vickie Saunders Date: November 7, 1996

HAZARDOUS AMMUNITION

Washington--The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) has been advised by Hirtenberger AG, Hirtenberg, Austria, that certain 9Xl9 mm
caliber ammunition produced by Hirtenberger is unsafe for use in any handgun.

The ammunition, designated L7A1 and produced ln the years 1990 through 1992, was produced for the British Ministry of Defense specifically for use in submachineguns under adverse conditions. The ammunition was loaded to produce pressures far in excess of that intended for use in handguns.

The manufacturer advises that up to 12 million rounds of this ammunition has recently been sold on the world surplus market. The ammunition can be identified by the following head stamp located on the bottom of the cartridge case

12 O'clock position: HP
3 O'clock position: 90, 91, or 92
6 O'clock position: L7Al
9 O'clock position: the marking of a cross within a circle

This ammunition should not be fired.

We are not aware of any of this ammunition being imported into the United States. ATF will take action to prevent the commercial importation of this
ammunition.

For additional information, contact, Mary Jo Hughes, Chief, Firearms and
Explosives Imports, (202) 927-8320. "
tangosix.
 
#6
Thanks!
 
#8
4(T) said:
Good job you were using a Glock, and not a vintage Luger.....
I resent the idea that I would ever be caught using a glock!

Someone else's ammo, someone else's gun, someone else shooting it, on someone else's continent. Thankfully.
 
#9
stoatman said:
I resent the idea that I would ever be caught using a glock!
Some might just not have any other options than using a Glock mate! :wink:
 
#10
Cloggie said:
stoatman said:
I resent the idea that I would ever be caught using a glock!
Some might just not have any other options than using a Glock mate! :wink:
Don't get me wrong, it's a great service piece and some of the models make great carry pieces, but Tupperware is just not for me on the range...
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#11
tangosix said:
Hello,

"Department of the Treasury
ATF Office of Public Information

For Immediate Release FY-97-6
Contact: Vickie Saunders Date: November 7, 1996

HAZARDOUS AMMUNITION

Washington--The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) has been advised by Hirtenberger AG, Hirtenberg, Austria, that certain 9Xl9 mm
caliber ammunition produced by Hirtenberger is unsafe for use in any handgun.

The ammunition, designated L7A1 and produced ln the years 1990 through 1992, was produced for the British Ministry of Defense specifically for use in submachineguns under adverse conditions. The ammunition was loaded to produce pressures far in excess of that intended for use in handguns.

The manufacturer advises that up to 12 million rounds of this ammunition has recently been sold on the world surplus market. The ammunition can be identified by the following head stamp located on the bottom of the cartridge case

12 O'clock position: HP
3 O'clock position: 90, 91, or 92
6 O'clock position: L7Al
9 O'clock position: the marking of a cross within a circle

This ammunition should not be fired.

We are not aware of any of this ammunition being imported into the United States. ATF will take action to prevent the commercial importation of this
ammunition.

For additional information, contact, Mary Jo Hughes, Chief, Firearms and
Explosives Imports, (202) 927-8320. "
tangosix.
Very interesting raises some questions too:

Was this British Government surplus that was released by UK Gov?
12,000,000 is rather a lot of leftovers from what appears to be a rather special requirement order?
 
#12
If I recall correctly, the SMG required a relatively strong charge as a weaker charge could potentially lead to the working parts not blowing back fully and the weapon not stopping until the mag was empty.

The same ammunition would wear browning pistols out quite fast.

Glocks are crap IMHO (From a purely design POV, I have never fired one and never want to be in a position where I have to carry or use one). The only reason they are so popular with US Law enforcement is agressive marketing.
 
#13
Alsacien said:
Very interesting raises some questions too:

Was this British Government surplus that was released by UK Gov?
12,000,000 is rather a lot of leftovers from what appears to be a rather special requirement order?
MoD plod have recently changed their weapon of choice from the MP5 to the MP7 (which uses 4.6x30mm rounds). Could this account for all 12 million, or has someone else also dispensed with their MP5s recently?
 
#15
4(T) nice comment about the vintage Luger...

a ahem..'friend' accquired one from 'someone he knew', and brought it onto the range...i gave him a small but informative brief about world war two and older, vintage weapons not being proofed for modern ammo...but he covered his face with his left hand and cabbied off a few dozen down range ..no harm done at all, but rather him than me... told him to have a feckin' good look at it afterwards....also sent him a link to 'you tube' which shows you how to strip and assemble, etc....a very useful site to all up and comming 'gangstas'.
 
#16
MP7 came in to service about 2 years ago up until then MDP had MP5 / SA80 and browning SLP depending on what station you were at. The MP5 ammo was normal 9mm parablenum (scuse the spelling) or JSP in London.
 
#17
jimmy_jazz said:
4(T) nice comment about the vintage Luger...

a ahem..'friend' accquired one from 'someone he knew', and brought it onto the range...i gave him a small but informative brief about world war two and older, vintage weapons not being proofed for modern ammo...but he covered his face with his left hand and cabbied off a few dozen down range ..no harm done at all, but rather him than me... told him to have a feckin' good look at it afterwards....also sent him a link to 'you tube' which shows you how to strip and assemble, etc....a very useful site to all up and comming 'gangstas'.
Years ago in the 80's a local 'businessman' was a guest of a couple of friends and I on our 30m range. He brought with him a few weapons and his minder. The P38 was fine as was the 357, but it must be said that the .38 Derringer 'stings' somewhat with .38 ammo.
 
#19
"12 O'clock position: HP
3 O'clock position: 90, 91, or 92
6 O'clock position: L7Al
9 O'clock position: the marking of a cross within a circle"

Can anyone explain why a high pressure load that is unsafe for general use has a NATO conformity symbol? I always thought that in order to carry this it had to meet both dimensional and performance tolerances with the intent being that NATO 9mm was always usable in NATO 9mm weapons.
 
#20
probably cause when the stuff was made most common use was in open bolt submachine guns
germans and dutch used uzi's etc
 

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