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82 year old man tasered by RCMP

#1
An 82 year old, invalid man was subdued by big burly RCMP officers with 3 jolts of their tasers.

The man, a heart bypass patient, on oxygen, became delerious and threatened nurses with a <sarc> big fcukoff knife /<sarc> and the Queen's cowboys arrived to subdue him. RCMP said, they couldn't use any pepper spray as it wou;d have contaminated the entire hospital. (why in heavens name would anyone think it is ok to use either pepper spray or taser on a heart patient?)

Rest of story here: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/05/08/bc-kamloops-man-taser.html

Note the cops aren't saying just how big his knife was... I suspect it was a dull butter knife off his food tray or one of the plastic ones. The nursing staff who called this in, should be ashamed of themselves.

Makes the UK license plate incident pale in comparison but, good grief what are the LEOs thinking these days? How is any of this good policing?
 
#2
Yet another anti police/cop thread. Tut, tut.

How big does a knife have to be to kill you? If he is well enough to hold it, he is well enough to use it. Suppose it's just easy to second guess as usual.

Suppose it would also be easier (And publically acceptable) for the police officer to walk up to the man and disarm him by allowing him to stick it in his/her neck.

Or by the tone of your post, you have already assumed that the police didn't bother to try and persuade the woman to disarm and just stormed in with 'guns' blazing. Job done.

I am sure that the other patients and nursing staff had a similar view to you and were pissed off they were able to go home that day unharmed. Perhaps the police should of tickled her into submission. Or perhaps told politically incorrect jokes.

Police are on a hiding to nothing. Stand off they are slated, deal with it they are slated. Nothing new here.

Edited to correct mong spelling errors.
 
#5
Actually, if people read the article before commenting, they'd realise it was a man and not a woman.

Obviously a judgement call, on one hand a man hand threatening people trying to help him with a knife, on the other, a frail old bugger with an attitude problem.

If the threat was real, in other words a bloody great knife was being waved about, some force was obviously justified, for all we know they may have tried subduing him without the tasers?

If the report is to be believed, this was an outrage. I'll quote it here as some people are obviously not reading the linked report (or may not be able to access it):

"I was laying on the bed by then and the corporal came in, or the sergeant, I forget which it was, and said to the guys, 'OK, get him because we got more important work to do on the street tonight,'" Lasser said.

"And then, bang, bang, bang, three times with the laser, and I tell you, I never want that again."
(Just beat me to it niner_domestic, good point about the finger wagging)
 
S

stabradop

Guest
#8
BBR

I agree, I am waiting to hear from HMPS and I hate it when the limp wristed leftie types moan about prisons.
 
#9
It's not like you to try and push-start a popularist bandwagon Niner.

Would you have preferred to see the following headlines?

"Mountie stabbed trying to subdue deranged man", or
"Man goes beserk in hospital"

Neither of us was there, and I doubt that either of us can comment on whether this was a reasonable use of force in the circumstances.

Edited to add:
BBR, I think that you'll find that ND has some knowledge of the Canadian Criminal Justice system.
 
#10
BlotBangRub said:
Do better ?

Said it before, join the police then.

Please no 'I cant get in bacause I'm white/christian etc etc.'

******* who aren't good enough always use that excuse.

Try making a real attempt to join.
I will only join if I can randomly beat people who "need" attitude readjustment.
Will I get a Gat, for more serious trouble makers too?
 
#11
BBR, Don't need to join the police, I'm a Crown Attorney for the Feds. I actually see, hear and get that close up and personal with the dregs of society every day. And just because I seem to have a duty to my Country, I also do the prosecution of bad boys and girls in the military and then add in chasing down a few war criminals just to round my day off. Hardly class that as a leftie type lifestyle. (Although I do admit to crunching on the odd granola bar in between cases). So those who are cops can put your dicks away and stop waving them around.

I've actually just finished a case of use of reasonable force. This is no where near the same scenerio.

If you bothered to read my comments, they were twofold, one was directed at the nursing staff who allegedly failed to a) monitor a post op patient's O2 supply b) allegedly failed to monitor his delirious state until they deemed it was out of control. (just where would a delirious patient wearing a hospital gown, sucking on an O2 mask, post op and sick with pneumonia get a knife to weld in the first place? - my guess - his food tray. Why he was left alone while delirious is a huge question of standard of care) c) apparently assessed the situation as grave - still wrapping my head around how a sick man in a johnny shirt, laid up in a bed with an O2 mask on could be construed as a mobile threat.

Perhaps I am inferring too much on the circumstantial story, but it appears to be a little light on the nursing care as a whole. If it was a food tray knife he used, then who gives a delirious man with pneumonia, a food tray and not supervise his mastication of the food to insure he didn't
choke?

Have we moved to a place in society where if one is seriously ill, one can no longer be ill with all the symptoms and conditions such illnesses present? Must we be a model patient at all time as to not bother the nursing staff/hospital workers? (I'd hate to see what a woman in labour would have done to her, if she was seen to be a threat for screaming bloody blue murder of all things male and phallacy - anyone who has ever been in a labour room will know you cannot reason with a woman in labour at all)

The second comment was along the lines of how can this be considered good policing? Have we moved so far to the right of common sense that there is no one left who can simply override knee jerk reactions? Must all police be in a constant state of ultrasensitive alert of imminent harm?

How ever did we survive with the dregs without the taser?

My mother was a Queen's cowboy for over 25 years, she patrolled areas of over 500 square miles, alone and with knowledge that backup was hours away. In her 25 years, she never tasered anyone, shot anyone, or even used her billy stick. She caught a few beer bottles in the head, ducked a few swings and chased baddies for miles, she never felt threatened or afraid and if she did, she certainly never told anyone. She used her gun more on the wildlife threats and never once used it on a human.

So when I read about 3 male cops having to resort to using a taser on an elderly hospital patient, I can't help by wonder where we are going with our policing and health care.

Wherever it is, it's not going to be pleasant for any of us.
 
#13
Oh dear, we have a case of dicks at dawn. Whatever shall I do, my dick for waving is in the cleaners.

You coppers apparently do like to transgender folks. Excellent powers of observation and attention to detail. 2 for 2...
 
#14
niner_domestic said:
BBR, Don't need to join the police, I'm a Crown Attorney for the Feds. I actually see, hear and get that close up and personal with the dregs of society every day. And just because I seem to have a duty to my Country, I also do the prosecution of bad boys and girls in the military and then add in chasing down a few war criminals just to round my day off. Hardly class that as a leftie type lifestyle. (Although I do admit to crunching on the odd granola bar in between cases). So those who are cops can put your dicks away and stop waving them around.

I've actually just finished a case of use of reasonable force. This is no where near the same scenerio.

If you bothered to read my comments, they were twofold, one was directed at the nursing staff who allegedly failed to a) monitor a post op patient's O2 supply b) allegedly failed to monitor his delirious state until they deemed it was out of control. (just where would a delirious patient wearing a hospital gown, sucking on an O2 mask, post op and sick with pneumonia get a knife to weld in the first place? - my guess - his food tray. Why he was left alone while delirious is a huge question of standard of care) c) apparently assessed the situation as grave - still wrapping my head around how a sick man in a johnny shirt, laid up in a bed with an O2 mask on could be construed as a mobile threat.

Perhaps I am inferring too much on the circumstantial story, but it appears to be a little light on the nursing care as a whole. If it was a food tray knife he used, then who gives a delirious man with pneumonia, a food tray and not supervise his mastication of the food to insure he didn't
choke?

Have we moved to a place in society where if one is seriously ill, one can no longer be ill with all the symptoms and conditions such illnesses present? Must we be a model patient at all time as to not bother the nursing staff/hospital workers? (I'd hate to see what a woman in labour would have done to her, if she was seen to be a threat for screaming bloody blue murder of all things male and phallacy - anyone who has ever been in a labour room will know you cannot reason with a woman in labour at all)

The second comment was along the lines of how can this be considered good policing? Have we moved so far to the right of common sense that there is no one left who can simply override knee jerk reactions? Must all police be in a constant state of ultrasensitive alert of imminent harm?

How ever did we survive with the dregs without the taser?

My mother was a Queen's cowboy for over 25 years, she patrolled areas of over 500 square miles, alone and with knowledge that backup was hours away. In her 25 years, she never tasered anyone, shot anyone, or even used her billy stick. She caught a few beer bottles in the head, ducked a few swings and chased baddies for miles, she never felt threatened or afraid and if she did, she certainly never told anyone. She used her gun more on the wildlife threats and never once used it on a human.

So when I read about 3 male cops having to resort to using a taser on an elderly hospital patient, I can't help by wonder where we are going with our policing and health care.

Wherever it is, it's not going to be pleasant for any of us.
All of which may be true, however:
- were you there?
- do you know the facts of the case?
- do you believe that the report is accurate, complete and balanced?
- just because your mum could stare down an elk at 50 paces, it doesn't mean she wouldn't have prefered to use a taser if she'd been issued with one.

Edited to add:
The fact that it took 3 traser 'shots' to subdue him suggests that he may not have been as passive as you seem to think.
 
#15
I strongly concur with Niner_Domestic's comments. I am not Canadian, but come from New England area. For a number of years I was a City Attorney and spent a lot of time either prosecuting disciplinary actions against cops or defending the city in Federal court from actions brought due to excessive force. (At one point 5 of the actions arose from 5 seperate incidents caused by one officer and his use of force) I still deal with the police on a daily basis. Most are great people, committed to public service and a credit to the department. A few are not.

This incident, as reported, is both a failure in medical care and a failure in policing. I am a bit surprised as I have great respect for the GRC/RCMP as a force and also for the members I have met over the years. I visit Canada often, having friends and Godchildren in Ontario and Nova Scotia as well as a lot of time in Montreal, QC when my son was in university. Any Gravel Road Cop I have met would have had no problem safely disarming a 82 year old invalid. Same holds true for OPP, SQ and P-SCUM.

I cannot imagine any reason why it would take 3 GRC/RCMP to disarm an elderly invalid and need 3 taser shocks to do so. All I can think of is that there must be really poor training standards and supervision in the BC mountie community. (Poor training for BC hospital staff too)

(N_D, amazing that I agree so strongly with you, given your background. The former wife is former naval officer and gov't att'y too)
 
#16
"They [police] should have known I had bypass surgery," Lasser told CBC News.
How would they know?

Frank Lasser shows the marks left on his body after being stunned three times by a Taser. (CBC)
RCMP said nurses called police after Lasser became delirious and pulled a knife out of his pocket.
What do people expect?

UK scenario;

Twaat pulls out knife,

"Police stop!"
"How old are you Sir?"
"Do you have proof of age?"
"How long is that knife?"
"Have you had a bypass?"
"How wide is the blade?"
"Is that a real knife?"
"What shoe size are you?"
"Is it a sharp knife?"
"Do you suffer any medical problems?"
"Are you vegetarian?"
"Do you.... Oh dear, you've just stabbed someone - I haven't finished asking questions yet!"

Conclusions;

Twaat with knife is awarded £250'000 compensation because the policeman offended him by addressing him as 'Sir' implying that he was a male.
Policeman is then dismissed from service and jailed for not asking the questions fast enough.
Old twaat with knife contracts MRSA and sues NHS for £1'000'000
Two nurses a shot as the MRSA was their fault as they forgot to tick one box on the cleaning rota.
 
#17
niner_domestic said:
An 82 year old, invalid man was subdued by big burly RCMP officers with 3 jolts of their tasers.

The man, a heart bypass patient, on oxygen, became delerious and threatened nurses with a <sarc> big fcukoff knife /<sarc> and the Queen's cowboys arrived to subdue him. RCMP said, they couldn't use any pepper spray as it wou;d have contaminated the entire hospital. (why in heavens name would anyone think it is ok to use either pepper spray or taser on a heart patient?)

Rest of story here: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/05/08/bc-kamloops-man-taser.html

Note the cops aren't saying just how big his knife was... I suspect it was a dull butter knife off his food tray or one of the plastic ones. The nursing staff who called this in, should be ashamed of themselves.

Makes the UK license plate incident pale in comparison but, good grief what are the LEOs thinking these days? How is any of this good policing?
Unless you were there and had to deal with it might I suggest you try and take a view other than that which appears in the newspaper. I like the fact you used a newspaper type header. How do you know that said RCMP officers were Burly? It could have been three female officers.

If the old bugger had a knife he's just as capable of sticking it into someones chest as a 15y old chav.

If said chav had ben tazer'd you'd probably applaud the actions of the police. FYO if the pepper spray is similar to PAVA (nonivamide) that my farce uses it really would have wiped out the room.

How would you have dealt with the situation? I'm all ears (or eyes in this case)
 
#19
BlotBangRub said:
one sentence made sense: yes your right, i didnt bother to read your comments.

Try getting some service fella, then bore me with your tales of dealing with criminals.
BBR from your avatar I take it that you are PSNI with previous service with the RUC? If so can you please explain what qualifies you to comment as an experienced police officer? Seagull and the others I understand, but not someone with that pedigree.
 

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