75th anniversary of Dresden bombing....

syrup

LE
Arguably more important.

The flak, firefighters, damage parties and night fighters took up iirc a million men of fighting capacity, and many more productive workers.

Like those Nazi divisions needed in Africa and the West, that's the sort of capability which could have turned things in Russia.

One of the factors that done for Dresden.
It's air defences were removed as they thought the city was safe.
They had alerts but hadn't been hit.
The Pathfinders put down the first markers within 50 yards of the aiming point.
The master bomber hung round directing the bombing which helped the firestorm.
The bombs were concentrated instead of scattered all over the city.
 

bedended

War Hero
It grips my shit that the Germans make a big deal of this commemoration. It’s the “Germans as victims” shite which prompted the stupid cnuts to kick off in 1939.
They started a war, they did unbelievably bad shit, they got some back. Boo ******* hoo.
They should remember Guernica, Rotterdam, Coventry, London and countless other places they trashed before clinging onto this as a means of deflecting. They attempt to classify Dresden as a war crime, it wasn’t - it was perfectly justified and it was war: war of their own making.
And it wasn’t “The Nazis” it was “The Germans.”
Morning @guzzijon,
From today's local 'comic'.
I somehow read/understood it as, the Nazis were to blame for Dresden. Knowing they weren't and thinking, it's a wind-up or fake news. Before realising I should go to 'SpecSavers'.
Just the picture and caption. No backstory on the far right and anti-far right protest and nothing of what went on, on Saturday.
Must admit I knew of the action but didn't know the date. That picture and this thread has made me wiser.
 

Attachments

It's a half decent film and as you say a good look into the attitude at the time.

I don't think repatriation started until Mrs Thatcher decided to offer the families the chance to bring the lads who were killed in the Falklands back.
I think that’s correct.

‘The boundaries of Empire are set by the graves of her soldiers’
 
Probably embarrassed - One USAAF Sqn became separated from the bomber stream and bombed Prague thinking it was Dresden.
So Bomber command accuracy level then?
 
It's a half decent film and as you say a good look into the attitude at the time.

I don't think repatriation started until Mrs Thatcher decided to offer the families the chance to bring the lads who were killed in the Falklands back.
IIRC in the book "The Falklands war -Then and Now" it was stated the policy came about due to a mother of a fallen soldier publicly saying she would personally go to the Falklands and dig her son up to return him to the UK if she had to.

Also the Argentine government refuse to have their dead repatriated as they consider them on Argie territory and ignored the families (who have been only allowed one visit ever to their sons graves)
 

soleil

War Hero
IIRC in the book "The Falklands war -Then and Now" it was stated the policy came about due to a mother of a fallen soldier publicly saying she would personally go to the Falklands and dig her son up to return him to the UK if she had to.
The new policy is referred to in this Telegraph article, GB - I don't know whether the whole article is visible.

 

ACAB

LE
I had a T34 for many years and sold it only recently. Tankies drooled over it, not only its shape but the tracks and other parts. I will try to explain one aspect. To remove a link from a track on a British tank, often gun cotton primers were used (So WW2 Tankies tell Me) The track cotter pins on the T34s tracks were floating links and slide back and forth when on hitting raised parts of the bulkhead. Thus they never 'locked in the track' they never had the 'cuts' that caused british Cotter Pin links to lock in position. I hope I am understood??
They even had a part welded to the hull that knocked the track links back into position.
 
With a great deal of prodding, the Russians eventually gave a T-34 and a KV-1 to the Allies for analysis and true to form, rubbished the results of the investigation. It can be found on the net. Worth a read.
Thanks-any chance of a link? I love this sort of thing.
 
It's a half decent film and as you say a good look into the attitude at the time.

I don't think repatriation started until Mrs Thatcher decided to offer the families the chance to bring the lads who were killed in the Falklands back.
Some, but not all of the soldiers killed in Oman were brought home. And obviously those killed in Northern Ireland prior to 1982 were also repatriated.

There was also some public disquiet in 1967 following the Crater massacre in Aden when the dead were left behind in a place that we were abandoning. Letters to The Times unfavourably comparing our policy to that of the Americans in Vietnam, etc.
 
Bloody good tank, the T-34. Alas, as a kid I was a wargamer, and my friend John Hilton and I drew up a set of rules for WW2 tank combat. Being as both of us were a tad obsessive we wanted to base the rules on the actual ballistic performance of the relevant weapons. We could easily get ballistic performance for US, UK and German guns, but there was a lack of info on Russian guns, so we - only kids would do this - wrote off to the Russian embassy for info. They gave us full info on the early 76.2 gun but wouldn't give us stats on the 85mm because it was still in use. I wish I'd kept the letter - it was marvellous.

There's a clan called "dads", another called "tea" and one called "old".

Fill yer boots. All the ballistic stuff is done for you by the very dedicated little pixies in your wireless telephone, the one with the television screen on it that they have these days.
 
Some, but not all of the soldiers killed in Oman were brought home. And obviously those killed in Northern Ireland prior to 1982 were also repatriated.

There was also some public disquiet in 1967 following the Crater massacre in Aden when the dead were left behind in a place that we were abandoning. Letters to The Times unfavourably comparing our policy to that of the Americans in Vietnam, etc.
The CWGC cemetery is/was at Little Aden, which is a bit if a drive SW from Aden proper. I'll do a Google air recce later when I'm on the laptop.

E2A: the cemetery at Little Aden is called Silent Valley, which is appropriate, but there appear to be some interments and a memorial in Ma'alla.
 
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The CWGC cemetery is/was at Little Aden, which is a bit if a drive SW from Aden proper. I'll do a Google air recce later when I'm on the laptop.

E2A: the cemetery at Little Aden is called Silent Valley, which is appropriate, but there appear to be some interments and a memorial in Ma'alla.
The interments at Ma'alla were in the British Military Cemetery/CWGC cemetery which was used up until 1965 when the new Silent Valley Military Cemetery was created.
It was possible for repatriation from Aden but not at public expense - apart from the cost being above the reach of most NOK, I would imagine that there was some subtle pressure to go with the flow and for the service personnel and their families to be buried locally
Post-withdrawal, there have been a number of exhumation and repatriations back to UK.
 
The interments at Ma'alla were in the British Military Cemetery/CWGC cemetery which was used up until 1965 when the new Silent Valley Military Cemetery was created.
It was possible for repatriation from Aden but not at public expense - apart from the cost being above the reach of most NOK, I would imagine that there was some subtle pressure to go with the flow and for the service personnel and their families to be buried locally
Post-withdrawal, there have been a number of exhumation and repatriations back to UK.
Thanks for that - you beat me to it.

I've just done my Google air recce and the Little Aden cemetery is easily found and appears fine, if bleak. The CWGC site explains who is where and how many are interred and from where.
 
The first thing was that the RAF didn't do operational research pre-WW2.
Hard for them to do this when the field was mostly blank until A.P Rowe's work in 1937....

We had some poor aircraft in 1940 but the procurement process guarantees this in an era of rapid development...
when ordered the Blenheim was a hot ship... all metal, closed cockpit, retractable under carriage and faster than the Gloster Gauntlet just entering service... Between then and 1940 of course the Germans got the 109 and we specified the 8 gun fighter...
 

Mr Tweedy

Old-Salt
if Harris understood how to systematically start one, he would have systematically torched every city in Germany.

He did, and the RAF had experimented with the technique since Lubeck in 1942.

It took a city centre with close packed medieval buildings full of highly inflammable wood, dry weather conditions for some days beforehand and exceptionally concentrated bombing, so that fires in a restricted area linked up to become one giant conflagration that created strong enough winds and enough heat to start the initial fire jumping from building to building due to radiant heat.

Dresden's, Hamburg's, Lubeck's and to a lesser extent Cologne and the cities of the Ruhr also had the bad luck to at least partially meet those conditions.

Wordsmith
The bomb loads were carefully developed, to deliberately create firestorms, with successive waves of bombers combining immediate fused HE to de-roof, delayed fuse HE to collapse walls and then Incendiaries to burn the piled up "fuel". - It was a largely experimental science, but it is probably more correct to say that by Dresden, in Jan 1945, the RAF had perfected the technique, rather than Dresden was just unlucky.
 

Nornironman

Old-Salt
This was a response to the bombing of Coventry, right or wrong, it showed Nazi Germany that we don’t take sh1te.
Oh do get a grip of Daily Mail type response. It was far from it, there is certainly a thought it was to prove to Stalin that the UK would stand up to him. As far as revenge for Coventry, that would be over simplistic and one crime does not expunge another.
There was no military target in Dresden other than the station close then to the front. The firebombing was shocking, and as a Brit I hang my head in shame when I go there.
You read Kurt Vonnegut?
 
You read Kurt Vonnegut?
Well I've read lots of second tier science fiction authors... doesn't mean I'm obliged to accept their hindsight guess about military policy decisions...

I wouldn't go there and sing "there's only one Bomber Harris" in the town square.. but I'm not about to burst into tears about the competent execution of one participant against one target of a three pronged attack ordered by an American supreme commander to assist the advance of an ally..
 

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