7.62 link, L96 and green spot...

#1
I've just done PRT at Lydd for 1 RGR, live fire package. All the usual small arms where used, and the Gurkhas had some L96s with them.

We had no green spot, so they asked if they could de-link some of the 7.62 and use that.

The RCO decided against that, saying that green spot was not the same as mere link.

I'd always thought ( = having been told ) that green spot was not actually specially made, just the highest toleranced rounds from a batch.

Whats the story?

Is it specially made, is it early batch and if so, why can't it be used in L96? If the Bad Guys where in range, I'd fully expect link to be broken up and used if the L96 had no green spot...

BB
 

Bugly

War Hero
#2
I don't know the full answer to your question re green spot, it is better quality. But I can see no reason why standard 7.62 ammo can't be used, it won't give the same accuracy though.

I'll try and find out for you.
 
#3
Thanks Bugly.

Goes without saying that the Gurkhas where VERY impressive...
 
#4
Green Spot is of higher quality overall ( supposedly) but has a different and heavier projectile than bog standard link.
 
U

uncle_ho

Guest
#5
On my snipers course (89) we were told that each green spot round has exactly the same number of grains in it which means there can be no chance of variation in muzzle velocity and therefore no variation in the trajectory of the shot.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
Green spot ammo is the same as standard ball ammo, but only to a degree. The Green Spot stuff is indeed weighed and balanced, and I think it may also have more accelerant, but don't quote me on the last bit. The main aspect is that the amount of variation round to round is as little as they can manage. It is still a long way from match ammo, as this has to be checked and weighed by girls wearing only grass skirts, sat around a large table with magnifying glasses the size of their faces who also polish the head between their thighs (fner fner).

Met a walt in my local gun shop who said he was ex-forces sniper and who swore blind that the ammo used was actually 'black' spot.

Got into a lengthy discussion about the pros and cons of the art and he had to start finding reasons to be elsewhere. Much fun was had.
 
#7
Green spot ammunition is no longer produced for the military. It is not deemed necessary. 7.62 Ammunition is available in Ctn for use in the L96.

It is illegal to de-link Ball, 4B1T or 1B1T Linked ammunition to use in the Sniper rifle. It is considered tampering with ammunition.

If a unit has the L96 it will have the scaling to demand 7.62 Ctn. (Ball and Blank).
 
#9
fingers_1661 said:
dingerr said:
It is illegal to de-link Ball, 4B1T or 1B1T Linked ammunition to use in the Sniper rifle. It is considered tampering with ammunition.
...in that case so is opening the H83!
YOU clearly shouldn't be allowed near ammunition. Shouting bang should be your limit.
 
#10
I'm no ammo expert but what we've always been taught (and still teach) is that designated sniper ammo (ie. boxed and marked 'Sniper') is merely the first 500 from each batch which tests prove to be the most consistently made and have the most consistent results.
It may and probably is a load of arrse but thats what we work off.
As per delinking 7.62, it had to be done on telic 1 and occasionally we still have to.
Still does the job over smaller ranges if your IW won't suffice.
 
#11
Biped said:
Met a walt in my local gun shop who said he was ex-forces sniper and who swore blind that the ammo used was actually 'black' spot.
There was Black Spot ammo at one time, I've been out a while so whether there still is I wouldn't know.
 
#12
Green Spot used to be identical to issue 144gn ball, but made in controlled batches. It is quite common to find batches of ordinary issue ball that are just as accurate as Green Spot - eg some 1989 "Black Spot" is indeed very good.

In the 1990s, target shooting & sniping went over to using a heavier 155gn bullet (for better residual velocity at long range). Link ammo for GPMG still uses the 144gn spec, since of course thats what the weapon sights are calibrated for. Since the service rifle is now 5.56mm, most of the boxed loose 7.62mm is now made in small quantities to the 155gn spec - ie its all considered "target" grade and hence the "Green Spot" distinction is no longer necessary (Bisley shooters would disagree - the output of RG seems to be highly variable these days...).

The current ammo comes under a variety of different nomenclatures, but is usually L42A1 (confusingly, the same number as the old sniper rifle....). There is no real difference in swapping between 144 and 155 gn ammo, apart from the change in weapon zero. I imagine the fuss would be down to the HSE paranoia about using "unapproved" ammo in the wrong weapon.

I stand to be corrected by the next ammo tech to come along!

[/img]
 
#13
Odd......a PSI, and Sniper Instructor, was quiet happy to break link to use in a L96 on a range day with SF. Only fired to 600m but there were no dramas

I'd struggle to describe breaking link as tampering with ammo. I've spent a fair few years breaking link, making link up, relinking belts. Now if I'd spent several hours pulling the head off a round and pouring in/out grains of powder, or chopping the head off, or doing a Brodie then I'd march myself off under arrest for tampering with ammo!
 
#14
Sorry i should have said stripping Lnk for use in the Sniper Rifle, its not approved. A subsequent breech explosion whould be attributed partially to using the incorrect ammo and thus the firer whould be in a whole world of hurt.
 
#15
Hmm Black Spot?

I suspect that some people are getting confused with the markings on the ammunition container.

Ball is indicated be a filled in circle on a service brown metal container this is yellow. On wood (which 7.62 carton used to come in) this was a black filled in circle or 'black spot'.
 
#16
4(T) said:
The current ammo comes under a variety of different nomenclatures, but is usually L42A1 (confusingly, the same number as the old sniper rifle....). There is no real difference in swapping between 144 and 155 gn ammo, apart from the change in weapon zero. I imagine the fuss would be down to the HSE paranoia about using "unapproved" ammo in the wrong weapon.

[/img]
Quite right about the "Black Spot". Difference really shows up at longer ranges.

Had a go at the optimistic range of 900 yards (well it is for me) especially with a Steyr fitted with a 570mm barrel, which many would consider on the short side.

With 144gn all over the place, many times not even on the target. Vast improvement with Black Spot.
 
#17
4(T) said:
Since the service rifle is now 5.56mm, most of the boxed loose 7.62mm is now made in small quantities to the 155gn spec - ie its all considered "target" grade and hence the "Green Spot" distinction is no longer necessary (Bisley shooters would disagree - the output of RG seems to be highly variable these days...)
As I understand it, the MoD is no longer buying "Green Spot" in bulk, and so the "we'll give the NRA a half-million rounds of RG, in exchange for free use of Bisley Camp and Century" is about to change into something else.

The good news is thus that the NRA may soon be supplying stuff other than RG for the Imperial Meeting. As I understand it, there are only a few bidders for the contract, and a certain level of debate over which bidder can provide the best ammunition for the lowest price...
 
#18
dingerr said:
Sorry i should have said stripping Lnk for use in the Sniper Rifle, its not approved. A subsequent breech explosion whould be attributed partially to using the incorrect ammo and thus the firer whould be in a whole world of hurt.
A round carefully stripped from link is never going to cause damage to the L96 or any other 7.62 rifle. I assume that the problem is if while stripping the linked ammo down you in some way damaged or altered the round. For instance if the bullet was pushed further into the case that would change the pressure.
 
#19
My old sniper instructor (Muttering Ralph to those that know him) used to have us out on the ranges at any opportunity. As a result we burnt through our annual allocation of 'sniper' ammunition and so he nicked loads of link from the SF platoon. Many a happy hour with frozen fingers was spent breaking down link.

There was a fair bit of difference in the accuracy of the rounds, but only at distances over 500m. We had one or two lads who happily shot out to 1km (myself not included) who noticed a massive difference, but it didn't really affect anyone else who were only going for head shots at 400-600m and harrassing fire further out. Getting rid of the tracer showed that it was significantly different from ball at long ranges, and (not surprisingly) a lot less accurate.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#20
Pushing a bullet into the case can cause misfeeds and also powder to spill out. The chance of a breech explosion using delinked. 7.62 in a bolt action rifle is veryslim, most rifles are proofed at 20 tons per sq inch and 762 is set to about 56000 psi. Shouldnt be a problem.
I can check, I just cant be arrssed.
 

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