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6 Div

#2
Jobs for the boys? Although this can be linked to an operational requirement it does provide employment for another Two Star.
 
#3
jack-daniels said:
I see that 6 Div has come back into being. How are they going to fill this Div or is it just an HQ or hopefully they're going to bring it back as 6 Airborne Div!!
I wonder how its going to be pitched, considering the legacy and history associated to the Division.

Would it be considered a slap to the face if it were named 6 Div and not related to the legendary 6th Airborne Division?
 
#4
"Jobs for the boys? Although this can be linked to an operational requirement it does provide employment for another Two Star."

It also frees up two other 2* HQs from yet another tour in the Stan - but of course that doesnt matter if it involves giving a 2* a job now does it?
 
#5
There are plenty of other 2 Stars and Div HQs that could be moulded for the task. Why do you think this one is called 6? Because there are 5 others. Why not an Op Tour or two for them?
 
#6
ICShiiteJobs said:
jack-daniels said:
I see that 6 Div has come back into being. How are they going to fill this Div or is it just an HQ or hopefully they're going to bring it back as 6 Airborne Div!!
I wonder how its going to be pitched, considering the legacy and history associated to the Division.

Would it be considered a slap to the face if it were named 6 Div and not related to the legendary 6th Airborne Division?
Because its not related to 6th Airborne Div

Its related to 6th Inf Div


6th Infantry Division
 
#7
wellyhead said:
ICShiiteJobs said:
jack-daniels said:
I see that 6 Div has come back into being. How are they going to fill this Div or is it just an HQ or hopefully they're going to bring it back as 6 Airborne Div!!
I wonder how its going to be pitched, considering the legacy and history associated to the Division.

Would it be considered a slap to the face if it were named 6 Div and not related to the legendary 6th Airborne Division?
Because its not related to 6th Airborne Div

Its related to 6th Inf Div


6th Infantry Division
But surely it's finest hour was Normandy. The 82nd AA was originally an infantry Div but not many people remember that either.
 
#8
western said:
There are plenty of other 2 Stars and Div HQs that could be moulded for the task. Why do you think this one is called 6? Because there are 5 others. Why not an Op Tour or two for them?
Yeah, why not send HQ ARTD whilst you are about it...

The point is that having volksturmdivisionen is hardly the way ahead is it? Whilst HQ 2 Div is building up to CT5/6 with half a dozen ROs and a stable-lad who will do what they are doing? We have non-deployable bits of the Army so that when the deployable bits come back the whole place hasn't collapsed into ruin.

And as for 'jobs for the boys' I suppose we haven't got enough to do without finding another HQ to whirl itself into frenzy for no apparent reason.
 
#10
"There are plenty of other 2 Stars and Div HQs that could be moulded for the task. Why do you think this one is called 6? Because there are 5 others. Why not an Op Tour or two for them? "

Because 2,4,5 are regeneration divisions and have no real operational role. They are purely for the administration of the regional brigades, handling financial issues and so on. They don't have any operational role except if all hell breaks lose and we need to run more than one major UK op at a time. 2/4/5 are organisations which have little role and a limited future. HQ 1&3 are working very hard, supporting multiple tours and need a break. 6 Div has been formed as an HQ Div for this express purpose - it would cost far too much and take too long to reorientate an RF Div to become an operational HQ - much easier to set up a small HQ (less than 60 people IIRC) and make it do the job it needs to do and then disband - probably in 2012.
 

Fugly

ADC
DirtyBAT
#11
Nice.

So, while the Defence budget gets smaller/stays where it is/increases due to spin, who exactly is going to do any actual "work" in this Division? You know, "work" as in throw on a set of Deserts and deploy to either of your favourite sandy places.

Hmmm - I suspect absolutely nobody - apart from a few SO's who are nominated to do so in order to both justify the existence of the organisation and generate a lot of spin about how well it is doing. In other words, the MoD wastes millions more achieving fuck all, yet again.
 
#13
The HQ is going to Afghanistan to command the forces over there. Its personnel are working up in the same way as 1 and 3 would and then it will disband. Everyone in it is going to Afghanistan, everyone in it will deploy. Its really simple, its a sensible solution from a retention perspective and its something we should have thought of a while ago.
 
#14
jim30 said:
Because 2,4,5 are regeneration divisions and have no real operational role. They are purely for the administration of the regional brigades, handling financial issues and so on. They don't have any operational role except if all hell breaks lose and we need to run more than one major UK op at a time. 2/4/5 are organisations which have little role and a limited future. HQ 1&3 are working very hard, supporting multiple tours and need a break. 6 Div has been formed as an HQ Div for this express purpose - it would cost far too much and take too long to reorientate an RF Div to become an operational HQ - much easier to set up a small HQ (less than 60 people IIRC) and make it do the job it needs to do and then disband - probably in 2012.
So if we run two major ops at the same time one, or more, of the re-gen divs should become active? I doubt we´ll ever run two major operations at teh same time though.

jim30 said:
The HQ is going to Afghanistan to command the forces over there. Its personnel are working up in the same way as 1 and 3 would and then it will disband. Everyone in it is going to Afghanistan, everyone in it will deploy. Its really simple, its a sensible solution from a retention perspective and its something we should have thought of a while ago.
6 Div has been raised beforre hasn´t it? I thought it was raised a few years ago too, for exactly the same role.

I would have thought (purely speculation here, but I can´t see anything wrong with it) by now we could have had a permanent 6 Div HQ in theatre. With troops rotating in and out with their parent Bdes, and a few independants. The staff could be drawn from 1, 3 or indeed any other HQ or unit that has a body yho can do the job. Lower ranks could do 6 months, with the key players doing 12.

Even foreigners could be brought in to man it.

I can´t see any problems with that, apart from some bods being away from their families for a year.
 
#15
"So if we run two major ops at the same time one, or more, of the re-gen divs should become active? I doubt we´ll ever run two major operations at teh same time though."

The theory (and theory it remains) behind the re-gen devisions is that if we ever had to expand in a serious way then we would use them as a core for a future army. If you go to a RF Div though you'll see they have no real combat capability - they are an admin HQ and not an operational HQ. Being careful with my words here, the individuals at an RF Div HQ are not the first eleven, and if we wanted to deploy the HQ we'd need to replace a lot of people anyway. Its quicker and easier to get 6 Div into place rather than restructure an extant HQ.
 
#16
jack-daniels said:
wellyhead said:
ICShiiteJobs said:
jack-daniels said:
I see that 6 Div has come back into being. How are they going to fill this Div or is it just an HQ or hopefully they're going to bring it back as 6 Airborne Div!!
I wonder how its going to be pitched, considering the legacy and history associated to the Division.

Would it be considered a slap to the face if it were named 6 Div and not related to the legendary 6th Airborne Division?
Because its not related to 6th Airborne Div

Its related to 6th Inf Div


6th Infantry Division
But surely it's finest hour was Normandy. The 82nd AA was originally an infantry Div but not many people remember that either.

No it wasn't as the 6th Inf Div didn't fight in Normandy, they were in the Far East at the time, albeit re-designated 70th Div. Please remember that you can have various Divisions and Brigades with the same numeral

For example, the 1st Airborne Div dropped at Arnhem, whilst the 1st Infantry Div was in Italy at the time, whereas the 1st Armoured Div was in N Africa, all different organisations. The 1st Armd Div is the one still operating today, I don't hear anyone mouthing of about their "airborne roots"

Oh and there was also a 1st (African) Div as well, but that disbanded in 41

If you want to find some flair in the 6th Inf Divs history, you will discover that after becoming 70th Div, they then were broken up and became the bulk of the Special Force that was known locally as the Chindits, which is none too shabby I feel.
 
#17
wellyhead said:
jack-daniels said:
wellyhead said:
ICShiiteJobs said:
jack-daniels said:
I see that 6 Div has come back into being. How are they going to fill this Div or is it just an HQ or hopefully they're going to bring it back as 6 Airborne Div!!
I wonder how its going to be pitched, considering the legacy and history associated to the Division.

Would it be considered a slap to the face if it were named 6 Div and not related to the legendary 6th Airborne Division?
Because its not related to 6th Airborne Div

Its related to 6th Inf Div


6th Infantry Division
But surely it's finest hour was Normandy. The 82nd AA was originally an infantry Div but not many people remember that either.

No it wasn't as the 6th Inf Div didn't fight in Normandy, they were in the Far East at the time, albeit re-designated 70th Div. Please remember that you can have various Divisions and Brigades with the same numeral

For example, the 1st Airborne Div dropped at Arnhem, whilst the 1st Infantry Div was in Italy at the time, whereas the 1st Armoured Div was in N Africa, all different organisations. The 1st Armd Div is the one still operating today, I don't hear anyone mouthing of about their "airborne roots"

Oh and there was also a 1st (African) Div as well, but that disbanded in 41

If you want to find some flair in the 6th Inf Divs history, you will discover that after becoming 70th Div, they then were broken up and became the bulk of the Special Force that was known locally as the Chindits, which is none too shabby I feel.
Well I'll be buggered! I never knew they had Divs with the same numbers, learn something new every day.
 
#18
jim30 said:
"So if we run two major ops at the same time one, or more, of the re-gen divs should become active? I doubt we´ll ever run two major operations at teh same time though."

The theory (and theory it remains) behind the re-gen devisions is that if we ever had to expand in a serious way then we would use them as a core for a future army. If you go to a RF Div though you'll see they have no real combat capability - they are an admin HQ and not an operational HQ. Being careful with my words here, the individuals at an RF Div HQ are not the first eleven, and if we wanted to deploy the HQ we'd need to replace a lot of people anyway. Its quicker and easier to get 6 Div into place rather than restructure an extant HQ.
So we have two levels of 2 Star officer? Maj Gen and Maj Gen (Light)?
 
#19
jonwilly said:
So 6 Div HQ is going to Ganistan to command a Divisions 'Worth' of troops ?
john
When it deploys it will command the NATO forces in Regional Command South, as it did last year. This includes the British, Canadian, Dutch and Australian contingents in Afghanistan, as well as some US troops.
 
#20
Fugly said:
Nice.

So, while the Defence budget gets smaller/stays where it is/increases due to spin, who exactly is going to do any actual "work" in this Division? You know, "work" as in throw on a set of Deserts and deploy to either of your favourite sandy places.

Hmmm - I suspect absolutely nobody - apart from a few SO's who are nominated to do so in order to both justify the existence of the organisation and generate a lot of spin about how well it is doing. In other words, the MoD wastes millions more achieving fuck all, yet again.
Fugly,

Assuming that you are in and routinely throw on a set of deserts (I will give you the benefit of the doubt) why do you not feel that there is no role for the 2* HQ? Who deals with all of the tasks that the Div HQ needs to do. For some bizarre reason you seem to see this as some sort of MOD conspiracy and "jobs for the boys" in some way. A deployable HQ was needed to help 1 and 3 Div who were starting to do turn about tours. 6 Div is a good short term answer. If you are a serving soldier then find some others and get them to explain to you why we need HQs and why it is not just about staff officers ponsing about whilst the real soldiers do all the work. If you are not serving then why not feck off and stop making snide comments.
 

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