6.5mm-6.8mm new us round with superior performance with the new mg.

DieHard

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
I just caught a glimpse of this on you tube and I was hit full on by the irony of it. Iirc half a century ago the Belgians came up with an outstanding assault rifle, Great Britain, Canada and Australia all got rather turned on with the prospects of said rifle the FN FAL.
Initially the USA agreed to use it to, but the guy in procurement wanted to leave his mark in history insisting that the 6.68mm intermediate round be changed to the 7.62 NATO round.
After a lot of work by FN the gun was adapted for 7.62 even though it would effect accuracy on full auto trying to keep the beast on target.
It was then accepted by some NATO countries but not by the USA, who unfortunately still call most of the shots now as they did then.
Instead of the FN FAL they basically made a rifle similar to the M1 Garand and chambered it to 7.62 NATO. This was the M14 which I have had the pleasure of firing, it had it's downfalls like any other 7.62 in the amount of ammo carried, some see that as a negative while I say it makes for a more disciplined soldier who shoots more accurately rather than lose half his ammo spraying the bushes in the hope of hitting someone.
Although they had a superb and powerful rifle in the M14 the guy in development and procurement decided that soldiers should be given the M16 in 5.56mm.
For quite a long time this was accepted by NATO, who at the end of the day know where the real money and manpower comes from.
The USA are now going to change to the intermediate round suggested 50 years ago.
Would it have worked better for all if the initial FN FAL was used?
The Germans were very impressed with the FN FAL and wanted to make there own, however the staff and state remembered ww2 and told their new NATO partners to FRO, which resulted in the German G3 again chambered for 7.62 because the USA said it should be standard before going to 5.56mm.
I have no idea what would of happened if the cold war went hot but having the main contributer using 5.56 while everyone else was using 7.62 could in my opinion of caused some major problems.
If a certain officer had stuck to the original deal all that time ago then we would have all been using a round that may have helped or not.
I'm certainly no expert on this but if i can see the irony of this I am sure others will too.

After loading the new video I found another one which although made by an American it is almost a carbon copy of my post.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#3
See my comments in bold

I just caught a glimpse of this on you tube and I was hit full on by the irony of it. Iirc half a century ago the Belgians came up with an outstanding assault rifle, Great Britain, Canada and Australia all got rather turned on with the prospects of said rifle the FN FAL.
Initially the USA agreed to use it to, but the guy in procurement wanted to leave his mark in history insisting that the 6.68mm intermediate round be changed to the 7.62 NATO round.
The round was not 6.68mm it was 7mm, .284 based on a necked down and shortened .300 savage case which was also the parent case for the 7.62 x 51
After a lot of work by FN the gun was adapted for 7.62 even though it would effect accuracy on full auto trying to keep the beast on target.
Pish again, it is controllable, troops just require training
It was then accepted by some NATO countries but not by the USA, who unfortunately still call most of the shots now as they did then.
7mm Mk1z was adopted then dropped within a few months

Instead of the FN FAL they basically made a rifle similar to the M1 Garand and chambered it to 7.62 NATO. This was the M14 which I have had the pleasure of firing, it had it's downfalls like any other 7.62 in the amount of ammo carried, some see that as a negative while I say it makes for a more disciplined soldier who shoots more accurately rather than lose half his ammo spraying the bushes in the hope of hitting someone.
Although they had a superb and powerful rifle in the M14 the guy in development and procurement decided that soldiers should be given the M16 in 5.56mm.
No, the Vietnam war showed the lack of usefulness of a full length rifle with that cartridge
For quite a long time this was accepted by NATO, who at the end of the day know where the real money and manpower comes from.
The USA are now going to change to the intermediate round suggested 50 years ago.
No
Would it have worked better for all if the initial FN FAL was used?
Possibly but its not the same cartridge
The Germans were very impressed with the FN FAL and wanted to make there own, however the staff and state remembered ww2 and told their new NATO partners to FRO, which resulted in the German G3 again chambered for 7.62 because the USA said it should be standard before going to 5.56mm.
Yes and no, Nato calibre trials started in 1975 and ran until about 1980 decided upon the future round being the Belgian SS109?
I have no idea what would of happened if the cold war went hot but having the main contributer using 5.56 while everyone else was using 7.62 could in my opinion of caused some major problems.
No, it was ok in every other war
If a certain officer had stuck to the original deal all that time ago then we would have all been using a round that may have helped or not.
You may be thinking of Colonel Studler
I'm certainly no expert on this but if i can see the irony of this I am sure others will too.

After loading the new video I found another one which although made by an American it is almost a carbon copy of my post.
Please remember that not everything posted on you tube is correct or even close to factual.
 

DieHard

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
See my comments in bold


Please remember that not everything posted on you tube is correct or even close to factual.
That would bet he day
 
#5
Please remember that not everything posted on you tube is correct or even close to factual.
Ugly you plagiarist, if you are going to quote the Duke of Wellington at least give him credit.

I only took about 30 seconds of that robot monotone voice over before switching it off.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#6
The videos aren't that bad for americans, they are no Gun Jesus thats for sure but it the posters interpretation of what he thinks he has learned is the issue.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#7
To the OP you need to look at .276 Enfield, this was planned for introduction sometime around 1913 and the Pattern 14 rifle was the weapon to use it. Unfortunately the propellant caused excessive blast and wear, before it could be sorted out WW1 had interfered.
Later the US Ordnance board trialled .276 in a rimless cartridge. It was exceptionally good, the normal ball could penetrate armour as well as .30 06 AP allegedly and despite the Garand rifle being designed around an en bloc 10 round feed for this cartridge it is rumoured the Macarthur stopped its introduction due to cost.
The Russians and Germans both trialled and adopted shortened service cartridges, they however both used the existing calibre bullets albeit lighter. We were impressed by this work, mid WW2 we were looking at 8mm Mauser, 7.92 x 57 for our new service cartridge. Discovering the German work was an eye opener!
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#8
#12
Cross Sectional Density is outstanding.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#13
#14
Very true, but what I find to be particularly fascinating is the history of the development of the 6.5 x 55 round and the tactical thinking that underpinned it.
 
#15
Posted elsewhere and worth repeating - 6.5mm CM is the new dogs bollox for US SF types
Anecdotal feedback about 6.5 mm CM performance has been overwhelmingly positive. Former-US Army paratrooper, Jim Schatz,* an architect of this initiative, advisor to SOCOM, and longtime advocate of intermediate calibres, described 6.5 mm CM as “a laser beam that was boringly accurate.” Industry insiders who have used this calibre confirm that its greater aerodynamic efficiency and superior ballistics correct everything that was ever wrong with 7.62 mm ammunition.
The US Army Special Operations Command (USASOC) 6.5 mm Precision Intermediate Calibre
 
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