6-11-2018 Odds of a Cyber scuffle??

#61
Sorry real life is getting the way here, I will re-read this (and I hope I am note making points made elsewhere).

A) Attribution.

We have seen how tricky it is to attribute cyber activity. I am not sure if Trump actually accepts the Russian interference. The indictments and Mueller report have intricate technical details if you care to read them, which obviously he has not or does not accept?

Without attribution, who do you target?

B) Enabling?

Currently I have seen serious extremist material on Tutanota, Protonmail and Telegram (other services are available). So do we target them?

Just a random example.

Entry level (it's a relative term) Cyber skills course in Cairo.

CEH (v10) Certification - Ethical Hacking training course in Cairo

Does this become the new target list? What about the American Company offering training?

C) Proportionality.

Is it proportionate to kill for on-line effects?
Is it proportionate to kill for real world effects caused by the on-world?
Is it on economic damage or does life have to be lost.

This is a very complex place, which I imagine is being struggled with by wiser Government minds than me.

But I look forward to the debate!
Sorry also some real world time conflicts and I need a pc and not an iPhone to respond.

But starting with point C.

It depends on the nature and extent of the attack. If things go South in the Pacific or Iran, and we know that degrading or neutralizing the enemies ability to screw with your civil population or military assets then by all means go lethal. Turning the power out in several states will result in hundreds or thousands of fatalities. So yes the REDFOR hackers are legit threats, and more so than a grunt. No kid gloves treatment for them. The idea of your traditional combatants, is rapidly changing.
 
#62
Do we really want ComicCon or Black Hat hit by VX or Novichock taking out our staff (or potential futuer) when a pissed off dictator repays us in kind?
How would this be any different to recent Russian physical attacks?

Cyber has been going on since the first computers, it's just another form of espionage. Russia or China are inevitably going to do something which will trigger a big response from the US.
 
#63
Sorry real life is getting the way here, I will re-read this (and I hope I am note making points made elsewhere).

A) Attribution.

We have seen how tricky it is to attribute cyber activity. I am not sure if Trump actually accepts the Russian interference. The indictments and Mueller report have intricate technical details if you care to read them, which obviously he has not or does not accept?

Without attribution, who do you target?

B) Enabling?

Currently I have seen serious extremist material on Tutanota, Protonmail and Telegram (other services are available). So do we target them?

Just a random example.

Entry level (it's a relative term) Cyber skills course in Cairo.

CEH (v10) Certification - Ethical Hacking training course in Cairo

Does this become the new target list? What about the American Company offering training?

C) Proportionality.

Is it proportionate to kill for on-line effects?
Is it proportionate to kill for real world effects caused by the on-world?
Is it on economic damage or does life have to be lost.

This is a very complex place, which I imagine is being struggled with by wiser Government minds than me.

But I look forward to the debate!

Point A can be harder to pin down, but then again when you can link certain countries to the practice it makes it easier to figure out a response to a nation state. Compared to say some 3rd party not affiliated to any country, then again those people might be easier to deal with as well. Nobody is going to give a shit if an ISIS Cyber cell gets a visit from the SOF types or a JDAM delivery.

Point B can also be pretty tricky, but corporate espionage is not going to result in fatalities amongst military personal or the civilian population. I would say a use of force module has to be created which can be matched/escalated based on the severity of the attack.
 
#64

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