4th Coldstreams Tank help.

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by Listy, Mar 13, 2010.

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  1. I've been trying to find out some information on the Strength of the 4th Coldstreams. The Info I'm looking for is what marks of Churchill's the regiment was using, and in what quantities, during the period of September-November 1944. Ideally broken down to Troop level. But anything will do.
    I know this info is pretty obscure, but I'm hoping that someone will have at least some idea.

    Also I've found some reference's to the 4th Coldstreams changing to 4 troops of 4 tanks, in the same period. They achieved this by merging the vehicles from the 5th Troop with three of the other troops. The Site that said this referred to War diaries and memoirs. Although if someone could confirm this with a reference?

    Finally if anyone has any info or personal accounts from this unit in the period mentioned, they would be welcome.

    Thanks for any assistance.
  2. One source is the history of the 6th Guards Armoured Brigade

    6th Guards Tank Brigade
    the story of guardsmen in Churchill tanks

    by Forbes, Patrick
    Published in 1946, S. Low, Marston & co., ltd. (London)

    My father, a gunner in 43rd Wessex Division, reckoned that Guardsmen in tanks was the daftest thing he saw. What army but the British would select the tallest men in the army - and sqash them into tanks?

    You will find four members of the Battalion on the back row of Overloon CWC in the netherlands. They were killed when their tank ran over a bar mine. Their tank, a CS varient is in the Overloon war musuem next door. The commander lived - but lost his legs,
  3. Thanks.
    I've encountered that story already. And I know of Patrick Forbes book. However I don't have that kind of cash sloshing around (Cheapest I've seen it is £50). A visit down the Library later this week is in order to try and track down that book.
  4. What a pity I'm not at home right now - I'd be able to tell you in about 5 mins flat.

    Have a look at British Armour in Normandy by Ludovic Fortin.
  5. They would have had Churchill Mk VII with a 75mm Gun and 2 BESA 7.92 MGs
  6. Thanks for your help. I'll have a look for the book as well. One question does it cover past Normandy? As the info I'm after is for Holland.

    No they don't. No Tank brigade was fully equipped with MKVII's. In June the whole of the 6th guards was equipped with MKIII's and IV's that had been re-armed with 75mm's, and MK VI's. The strength return (again for the entirety of the 6th guards) for December shows a mix of 6Pdr MKIII's and IV's. Along with 75mm Gun tanks.

    These numbers are for the entire tank brigade, not the just 4th Coldstreams.
    Dec 1944:
    III/IV (6pdr): 48
    III/IV/VI (75mm) 100
    V (95mm) 22
    VII (75mm) 12

    Now a MKIII with a 75mm is going to look allot like a MKVII.
  7. I stand corrected I would say this photo was taken at the time

    Attached Files:

  8. A few more I found

    Attached Files:

  9. They also had a captured Panther that the called cuckoo

    Attached Files:

  10. Theres loads more info on the "world war 2 chat" website
  11. This one:

    Was Taken at Appelhaussen, on 1st or 2nd of April 1945. With good luck it is a Coldstream Tank, as it can be ID by the Tank name. It's the Troop commander of 11 troop, C squadron.

    Yes I'm a spotter, but in mitigation I've spent all morning Looking at this subject.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Great minds and all that. Already Emailed them. They have nothing. They do have contact with a Vet and are going to see if he knows anything.
  13. Any idea what they used the Panther for? Heading columns maybe, to confuse the Germans a bit? Wouldn't it have been a bit dangerous to drive around in that Panther near other Allied units?
  14. They just took it because it had a gun capable of knocking out the opposition at most ranges. Unlike Sherman and Cromwell-equipped regiments, Churchill regiments lacked a 17-pounder gun tank that was capable of dealing with the Panthers and Tigers.

    As for recognition - they painted HUGE circled stars on the turret sides, top and rear and eventually on the glacis plate as well - they weren't taking any chances!