.444 Okay For Stalking ?

#1
Ive got the chance of a .444 Marlin for free , can it be put on a FAC for stalking? , .444 has the hitting power to stop a buffalo but are not probably a conventional deer calibre ?
 
#2
very popular 'bush' or forest stalking calibre in a lot of countrys, as long as your not going for head shots or long range stuff you will be fine...
cant see why not. its more than enough power factor and well over 6mm :)


.... will make a bit of a mess on a roe though :eye:
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#3
Its not a conventional deer calibre but is a good round, introduced when 45 70 couldnt be found and also means it fits Lee Enfield actions which the 45 70 wont without a lot of work due to barrel differences.
No reason of the top of my head why you cant have one, prepare your case in advance, say multiple use, wild boar human destruction, stalking and any other legal quarry. Show that you have taken into account all of the factors involved, muzzle energy, typical distance that you shoot deer at, use of high seats/elevated positions etc. As loong as you are prepared then they will have to listen. Dont let them say No straight away, back up your application with facts. There are plenty of oddball calibres out there in use, I have a couple so worst case check on forums such as Stalking Directory and be prepared for the dribblers but you should get some good ones.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#4
If you have to have it and need to move it from the other persons ticket I'm sure a friendly RFD will hang on to it for you!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#5
444MARLIN.gif In mid-1964, Marlin introduced a new cartridge intended for close to medium range big-game hunting. Dubbed the 444 Marlin, the new round was chambered in a variant of their highly successful Model 336 and was a long, straight-wall, rimmed design reminiscent of some of the old black powder express cartridges developed in the 1870s. In spite of the physical resemblance though, similarities to the older cartridges end there. The 444 is a thoroughly modern design, capable of driving a .429" diameter 240 grain bullet up to 2300 feet per second. This type of performance makes it one of the more potent cartridges ever developed for a lever action rifle. Delivering considerably more punch than some of our other traditional brush cartridges, Marlin's big 444 easily outclasses the popular 30-30 Winchester and the 35 Remington. The 444 is quite capable of handling the largest North American big game, as long as shots are limited to moderate range, are accurately placed, and appropriate bullets are selected. Loading for the 444 presents no unusual problems. Suitable propellants for the 444 include a range of fast burning rifle powders, such as IMR-4198, and Reloder 7. Most of these powders tend to be quite easy to ignite, making the use of magnum primers unnecessary. The straight-wall case design of this cartridge dictates a high bullet pull for best ignition and accuracy. Lightweight bullets like the 180 and 210 grain JHC can be used in the 444, but are best reserved for plinking and target practice. Designed to expand at 44 Magnum velocities, they are simply too frangible for the speeds attained by the potent 444 Marlin. The 240 grain JHC bullet is probably best for deer sized game, while the 250 grain FPJ will provide deeper penetration on thick skinned game, such as bear and boar. Cannelure placement on the 300 grain JSP precludes its use in the 444 Marlin, unless loaded directly into the chamber and used as a single-shot. Like any ammunition to be used in a tubular magazine, a firm crimp is required to prevent bullet shift under recoil.
Copyright © 2003 Sierra Bullets, LLC.



It certainly makes deer legal in just about every load
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#6
View attachment 444 marlin energy.bmp
View attachment 444 Marlin drop.bmp
Some horrific bullet drop, with a 2200 fps delivery of a 220 grain bullet and a 100 yards zero you will still be delivering 1877 foot pounds of energy but by 350 yards it would have dropped 52 inches and be down to 750 foot pounds, safe for the back garden ratting job then!
It obviously has charming up front energy which due to the bullet being as areodynamic as a house falls of very rapidly. This would make it an ideal cartridge for woodland work. I'm not sure if you could get a sound moderator that would work and not weigh 5 pounds but it would help tamme the muzzle flip. I suspect barrel porting is the way ahead here, that and ear protection and a good sense of humour as once fired nothing living will show its head for a week!
 
#7
Its not a conventional deer calibre but is a good round, introduced when 45 70 couldnt be found and also means it fits Lee Enfield actions which the 45 70 wont without a lot of work due to barrel differences.
No reason of the top of my head why you cant have one, prepare your case in advance, say multiple use, wild boar human destruction, stalking and any other legal quarry. Show that you have taken into account all of the factors involved, muzzle energy, typical distance that you shoot deer at, use of high seats/elevated positions etc. As loong as you are prepared then they will have to listen. Dont let them say No straight away, back up your application with facts. There are plenty of oddball calibres out there in use, I have a couple so worst case check on forums such as Stalking Directory and be prepared for the dribblers but you should get some good ones.
Eh?

Cheers.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#8
Sorry must have been a typo or a freudian slip!
Have you seen the rifle?
 
#9
Sorry must have been a typo or a freudian slip!
Have you seen the rifle?
Yes , its a old but tidy lever action with the varnish removed and nice matt stained wood , fired it as well , has a fair kick , more than a 12g.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#10
I have fired a Marlin in 45 70, it was a monster. I wouldnt like to be on the receiving end!
 
#11
If I remember correctly, Home Office guidance dictates that .380in is the largest calibre suitable for stalking deer in England and Wales. A chum got his .375H&H agreed after much argument, but .400s were out.

B
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#12
As I said look on Stalking Directory, I'm sure someone there uses one. Once its on ticket and in use for one species its easier to get use for other legal quarry. Your argument has to be that the size of calibre is actually immaterial its the danger of the round fired!
 
#15
Oddly, the .444 was used by a SFC. Jerry Michael "Mad Dog" Shriver (MIA Cambodia) while a member of MACV SOG, Command and Control South 5th SFG, Ban Me Thuot, South Vietnam. He apparently liked its ability to punch through log bunkers. A Bro has a .444 Marlin made in the 60's that he reworked. Added a ghost ring sight, thick front blade, short section of Piccatinney rail for an Aimpoint and had it parkerized. uses it on Javelina down in texas.
 
#16
Oddly, the .444 was used by a SFC. Jerry Michael "Mad Dog" Shriver (MIA Cambodia) while a member of MACV SOG, Command and Control South 5th SFG, Ban Me Thuot, South Vietnam. He apparently liked its ability to punch through log bunkers. A Bro has a .444 Marlin made in the 60's that he reworked. Added a ghost ring sight, thick front blade, short section of Piccatinney rail for an Aimpoint and had it parkerized. uses it on Javelina down in texas.
Doh, you've blown my PERSEC.
 
#17
If I remember correctly, Home Office guidance dictates that .380in is the largest calibre suitable for stalking deer in England and Wales. A chum got his .375H&H agreed after much argument, but .400s were out.

B
http://www.countryside-alliance.org.uk/ca/file/HO-Firearms-Guidance.pdf
Page 77. 444 Marlin is okay for use against deer and you shouldn't have a problem. However, as Ugly says, go with some more 'ammunition' just to ensure your case.

Not sure on your previous use, but if you have experience get it for 'any other lawful quarry' as well so you can use it on foxes etc when you come across them
 
#18
very popular 'bush' or forest stalking calibre in a lot of countrys, as long as your not going for head shots or long range stuff you will be fine...
cant see why not. its more than enough power factor and well over 6mm :)


.... will make a bit of a mess on a roe though :eye:
I find, like many big rounds, it tends to go through a Roe before it has time to expand fully, if you hit it right the damage remains acceptable, stops pigs quite well. Nice for driven game in woods but otherwise the range is very limiting.
 

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