40 Commando RM / Welsh Guards ..For the record.....

Were the WG Officers on board Sir G ever censured in any way for getting so many of their men killed and injured? Also, l seem to remember reading that the reason the men were in Sir G n the first place was because they had not hit their fitness hard enough on the way south and therefore couldn't do the trip on foot.
They had not fared well, either, during their final 'beat-up' FTX before leaving UK.

Some of this you can write off against having been 2 years (IIRC) on public duties - but . . . . .
 
They had not fared well, either, during their final 'beat-up' FTX before leaving UK.

Some of this you can write off against having been 2 years (IIRC) on public duties - but . . . . .
IIRC the CO was quietly kicked upstairs to a full Col staff post, but I've no idea how true that was.
 
Ewen Soutby Tailyour said the Welsh Guards were fit for purpose and well trained.
Loads of ******* who weren't there said the WG's were shit because they took casualties.
That's belonging.
 
Mebbe.

I don't think he was so kind about their leaders.
No mebbe about it. I read him somewhere saying the WG had been training hard in Kenya just months before sailing south They had also been training in UK in prep for Spearhead. He definitely said they were fit for purpose and well trained. His views regarding his conversation with Guards officers on board Galahad are well known.

And that's sorta the point that always sticks in my craw about all this. Ewen Soutby Tailyour's experience on board the Galahad are well documented. Most of the other stuff is not. It is unsubstantiated gossip.

I have met two WG veterans over the years who both gave the same account of why the march overland was cancelled. I also heard the same account being given by someone in a documentary but I can't recall which one. He was a young PL Cmdr at the time I think.

Still, the WG are now down in history as the biggest bunch of wasters in the conflict. That will probably never go away. No wonder the Welsh Guards veterans don't comment publicaly. Ewen Soutby Tailyour to his credit has never ridiculed the men, only some of the officers.
 
No mebbe about it. I read him somewhere saying the WG had been training hard in Kenya just months before sailing south They had also been training in UK in prep for Spearhead. He definitely said they were fit for purpose and well trained. His views regarding his conversation with Guards officers on board Galahad are well known.

And that's sorta the point that always sticks in my craw about all this. Ewen Soutby Tailyour's experience on board the Galahad are well documented. Most of the other stuff is not. It is unsubstantiated gossip.

I have met two WG veterans over the years who both gave the same account of why the march overland was cancelled. I also heard the same account being given by someone in a documentary but I can't recall which one. He was a young PL Cmdr at the time I think.

Still, the WG are now down in history as the biggest bunch of wasters in the conflict. That will probably never go away. No wonder the Welsh Guards veterans don't comment publicaly. Ewen Soutby Tailyour to his credit has never ridiculed the men, only some of the officers.
The duty rumour at the time was that the Co of the Jocks refused to disembark until a tented city was built for his Guards.
It took so long for him to be overruled that by the time they all started disembarking they were found by the Argentinians.
The Jocks disembarked first as senior Regt, so the Welsh paid the very heavy price.
 
The duty rumour at the time was that the Co of the Jocks refused to disembark until a tented city was built for his Guards.
It took so long for him to be overruled that by the time they all started disembarking they were found by the Argentinians.
The Jocks disembarked first as senior Regt, so the Welsh paid the very heavy price.
Bit difficult as the SG were transported on HMS Intrepid to Lively Island and then on 4 LCU's to Bluff Cove
 
The duty rumour at the time was that the Co of the Jocks refused to disembark until a tented city was built for his Guards.
It took so long for him to be overruled that by the time they all started disembarking they were found by the Argentinians.
The Jocks disembarked first as senior Regt, so the Welsh paid the very heavy price.
This thread us all about reputation and legacy. Repeating stories you heard in the pub from other people who weren’t there or just making shit up isn’t really helping.
 
EST & Michael Clapp's book, IIRC, says the Scots Guards sailed around from San Carlos in two waves, aboard Fearless and Intrepid respectively on successive nights. The first wave included half the battalion and most of the kit in four landing craft. This left 4 LCUs, half the total, in Bluff Cove so the second trip with Intrepid brought only two of her LCUs with the rest of the Scots and recovered the other four LCUs, leaving two in the Bluff Cove/Fitzroy area to offload later ships.
 
This thread us all about reputation and legacy. Repeating stories you heard in the pub from other people who weren’t there or just making shit up isn’t really helping.
A lot of whats been said here did happen, not made up by 'Blokes in the pub' but by men who were present down south. Here's a few observations from the men on the ground in 82......

David Ian ******** Two sections of Recce Troop, 45 Cdo were already on Sapper Hill when the Welsh arrived. We had captured the last Argie there.

Jim ****** Do you remember Dave, searching him and finding a grenade in his pocket. You came out with some right Yorkshire expletives. Also remember when that guards officer told us to get out of the CP and you told him to f**k off as we were there first. We let him have it after we had proffed all the goodies in there.


Yorkie ******* Jim ****** Great effort

Budgie ******* Telling an officer from the Household Division to "go away" doesn't sound like you Dave. Perhaps they got you mixed up with someone else!!!!!......................bet he didn't though.

James ******* So were 45's Recce on Sapper Hill as Charlie Company were engaged in a firefight with them then? Because if my memory serves me right, immediately after the fire fight, we occupied the hill, then other Units went past us to Stanley as we held the high ...See more

Vince ****** James ******well said oppo. :)

James ******** Vince....'The rest of the Battalion pressed on, eventually seizing Sappers Hill' ??!...My arse eh?!


Craig ******* There’s always going to be someone rewriting history Jim


Andy ******* Was there with Alpha. Remember it like yesterday.

Yorkie ******* Glad that 40 COMMANDO ROYAL MARINES got a mention
What was that thing they said a HELICOPTER they were talking about

Jono ********* We did a bit of yomping before that up the other side of the island. Just nobody noticed

Yorkie ******** Hence why I asked??? What is a heiicopter????

James ******* Jono ******** , everyone noticed the Welsh Gaurds with their not so tactical waterproofs giving the positions away!!

Mark ****** Jono ******* My feet noticed!

Jono ****** Mark ******** we just didn't make a song and dance of it. It's what Marines do....yomp ;-)

Terry *******: First time I have ever seen or heard of this Sign - where is it? As a member of 9 troop Charlie Company and in the first heleicopter to land and actually involved in the firefight I am ( as well of other Royal Marines from 40 Commando) amazed that it has been "high jacked" by the Welsh Guards. what do you thinks 9 Troop ; Alex ********, Bigg ***, Vince******, Chris ******, Sam *******, Carl ****** and everyone else?


Chris *******Nice to see history is absolutely correct again......good grief



Bigg **** That is good that we got a mention!! 40 Cdo was under command of Welsh I think cos Johny ****** was a Major and Andy ******* a captain! So history makes ref to Welsh when in fact it was 40!!



Jono ******* Rickett's was their CO, a Lt Col. Andy P was none to impressed after the minefield debacle and Bill ****** had to shepherd Rickett's away when he came to the Coy CP to apologise for our guy's getting wounded in the minefield.

Craig ******* My memory is a bit dim so keep me right Jim. But I seem to remember we had a brew on and dug in before the paras got there some time later on top of the tanks. I can remember telling one Gaurdsman to take his plastic waterproof off as you could hear him for miles, but that was at the starting point.

James ******* Yeah Craig, we'd had a run ashore then a Banyan on the Hill by the time other Units got there or went past us!
Yeah, we got the farthest & had the last action (mainly 9tp) in the Conflict, & they surrendered as Charlie Company attacked.

Yorkie ****** This is the reason that you DO NOT visit the Falklands in June it is full of welsh gards saying how they won
the war
When we were on Goats ridge after the taking of Mt.Harriet next day....we were making a cup of tea and such and a helicopter landed at the bottom of the ridge....out got this immaculately dressed grunter with a fekin monocle no less. His fighting order was even starched. Obviously just came off a ship.

In a moronic quaffers voice he screamed up at us who are you...he said some words to our troop cdr which we did not like so altogether without any coordination (great minds think alike) we all picked up rocks and stoned the fek out of him with the shouts of Fek Off ******. He stood his ground at first not believing what was happening but as stones started to bounce off his swede he beat a hasty retreat. Reckon now it was one of the Guards COs. Absolute tosser.

The main things I remember about Sapper Hill is firstly, finding bits and pieces of personal items ( Letters, Phots etc) of guys from 45, these had obviously been nicked alongside our wallets and money by Welsh Guards who were QUITE RIGHTLY allowed to go through our kit on Tristram to get dry clothing. I am sure none of our lads minded that after what the poor sods on Galahad had been through. The last people to leave Sapper Hill were Dick ********* HW1 mortars RIP , Jake ****** AE1 RIP and myself, we were left behind to blow all the ammo that could not be returned in their original packages( I kid you not) So after blowing the lot of it including nearly blowing the first RAF C130 that was trying to land on the Racecourse we high tailed it into Stanley only to find most of the guys were making their way to the only Pub in Stanley. Me for my sins was sent by my favourite RSM back to Morrell Bridge to guide the rear echelon through the minefields and pick up any unit weapons on the way.

From guys that were present, but I expect they still talk about it in the pub......
 
This thread us all about reputation and legacy. Repeating stories you heard in the pub from other people who weren’t there or just making shit up isn’t really helping.
I think "Don't cry for me, Sergeant-Major" (Hands & McGowan) may have contributed at the time, from a few comments contained within it...
 
Over the years, I've heard that any number of different units were Spearhead and were elbowed out of the way to allow the Guards to come thundering through. They include the Cheshires, the Green Howards and @Berlin_104s's post adds the Green Jackets.

Does anyone know the truth of things?
I compiled this list a few years ago from 'British Army Units from 1945 onwards-Locations' It may shed some light on things.

1DDR-Colchester, 1DoW-Catterick, 1 G/Hldrs-Kirknewton, 1G/H-Catterick, 1GG-Wellington Bks,2GG-Chelsea Bks, 3LI-Tidworth, 1PoWORY-Bulford, 1QoHLDRS-Tidworth, 1Queens-Canterbury, 2Queens-Colchester, 1R/Ang-Oakington, 3R/Ang-Colchester, 1RIR-Chester, 1RRW-Aldershot(originally 5 inf bde).
 
I compiled this list a few years ago from 'British Army Units from 1945 onwards-Locations' It may shed some light on things.

1DDR-Colchester, 1DoW-Catterick, 1 G/Hldrs-Kirknewton, 1G/H-Catterick, 1GG-Wellington Bks,2GG-Chelsea Bks, 3LI-Tidworth, 1PoWORY-Bulford, 1QoHLDRS-Tidworth, 1Queens-Canterbury, 2Queens-Colchester, 1R/Ang-Oakington, 3R/Ang-Colchester, 1RIR-Chester, 1RRW-Aldershot(originally 5 inf bde).
Spearhead Bn was a role allocated irrespective of location. Pretty much any UK based Inf bn could cop for it within the limitations of arms plotting, except (I'm guessing) those in the NATO-assigned AMF(L) role or public duties.

Thus the role fell to 1WG straight after a Public Duties role. But because they had barely had time to get into their stride, the Powers That Be opted to form and swiftly deploy a composite force of RM and Para, and in so doing had to recall 2 Para from leave prior to an FTX in America (?), for which much of their unit equipment (incl comms) was already en route by sea and couldn't be got back

So - no knowing the locations doesn't help much :) , nor was there any elbowing or thundering.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
M Gunners 18
Itainthalfhotmum The Intelligence Cell 1
P Gunners 4

Similar threads

New Posts

Latest Threads

Top