4 Man Battle Trenchs

Discussion in 'OTC and ACF' started by booty_cadet, Apr 21, 2009.

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  1. Well I've been debating where to put this. But if I put it in the regulars bit I'll get ripped to threads. Anyway, here's the scenario.

    Just for a little excercise on private (not training area) land we're planning we're doing the odd mixture of troop defensive positions and E+E (since they're both on cadet sergeants board, but we never get time to do them on normal weekends).

    Just sitting down to start writing the excercise plan (nothing official mind, staff will take care of that) and I can't remember exact dimensions for a 4 man battle trench. Since I'm at work I can't check my TAMs.

    So, here's what I'm thinking, just not sure how right it is.

    4m long
    2m firing bay
    2m shelter bay
    1.25m depth
    0.45m top cover on shelter bay
    0.75m thick elbow rest around firing bay
    0.5m firing platform
    1.25m width

    Now, mainly its the depth, firing platform height and elbow rest height I'm confusing myself about.

    Any help from anyone?
  2. It depends on how tall the people are :D
  3. Really depends on where you are, what resoures you have and who you are fighting but the most important thing is time, if you got bags of time you can make anything regards JJ
  4. how does digging trenches look on the risk assessment for young people whose backs haven't completely developed yet?
  5. Why not post this is the Sappers forum - they are the experts on all types of Field Defences! I should know because I was one (a sapper - not a battle trench)
  6. Exactly the same way it looked when I was 16 years old and was apprenticed for working on roads.

    Exactly the same way it does when a 16 year old joins the army.

    Minimum age for a cadet sergeant is 16. This is a weekend for potential cadet sergeants.
  7. Now forgive me I may have got the wrong end of the stick here but there is absolutely no need to dig or even learn about, Troop defensive positions, Fire trenches or escape and evasion for that matter in the APC syllabus.

    So the question is why on earth do you need to be teaching your cadets this?

  8. Its on the cadet sergeants board.

    And what the hells APC?

    (Have to explain stuff like this to me...marine cadet and all)
  9. Why do cadets of 16 need to know about trenches regardless of design and E+E??
  10. Firstly make sure you have applied for and have approved permission to train on private land. If you dont and something goes pear shaped, look out for a prosecution. Also check local standing orders for escape and evasion. They are quite strict.
  11. Permissions fine. Its my bosses land, signed on risk assessments but also signed a waiver form against any damages the land or anything on the land care to give to the cadets, staff or any equipment. Also signed by staff and cadets parents.

    They need to know it because its on the cadet sergeants board. Don't ask me why, but it is. So we knuckle down, shut up and get on with it.
  12. Ah my apologies didn't really take any notice of your user name.

    APC is the Army Proficiency Certificate the Army cadet training bible so to speak, still can't see why even as marine cadets you are expected to learn this sort of stuff.

    and as far as fleshing out a training program shouldn't you really leave that to your adult staff, as you intimated earlier or are we getting a little ahead of ourselves.

    I do understand that marine cadets are a little different to Army cadets but you still have to adhere to JSP535 and I am pretty sure that there will be some clause there in that prohibits the digging of trenches by cadets. Please say you have consulted said tome because if you haven't and god forbid something goes pear shaped then you are up the proverbial creek with out he means to propel you canoe.
  13. Digging trenches????

    Feck me there's one way of driving any enthusiasm out of young people!! Got to be one of the most tedious activities known to man - try doing something which will interest them!!

    A couple of weekends of trench digging and watch your headcount drop!
  14. I know how boring it is. Done it myself. Once on training weekend. Once on the sergeants board. Would prefer to never do it again, but we all know thats not how it works.

    Extra tedious seen as how my day job was digging holes too at that point.

    But, they need to know it, and just teaching theory never works just as well.
  15. Still do have to adere to JSP535. In it the closest thing is something along the lines of "don't work the little darlings too hard". The reason digging is normally left alone is because it could be interpretted as too hard.

    If anyone would like me to post the syllabus up here, just to prove I'm not bullsh*tting I'm more than happy to.

    And the reason I'm writing out a rough training program is because we have two staff members. Only two. They're busy scrounging stores and rations and filling out risk assessments. I offered to do this bit just to help out. Taking it to them for approval on Wednesday.