35 Thousand Apprenticeships Announced

#1
Our Dear Leader on his listening tour has just announced the creation of a new 35,000 apprenticeships to help young people. To be paid for jointly by Government (you and me) and industry (more cost to hard pressed employers who pass on cost to err .. you and me)

Assuming just the cost of a minimum wage I estimate this is about to cost a nice round half a billion - bargain.

Anyone want to take the begging bowl round to the IMF again?
 
#2
Herrumph said:
Our Dear Leader on his listening tour has just announced the creation of a new 35,000 apprenticeships to help young people. To be paid for jointly by Government (you and me) and industry (more cost to hard pressed employers who pass on cost to err .. you and me)

Assuming just the cost of a minimum wage I estimate this is about to cost a nice round half a billion - bargain.

Anyone want to take the begging bowl round to the IMF again?
I rather thought he wanted every one to have degrees and that apprentiships were frowned on, so it's another Brown U turn!
 
#3
Burger Me!!! According to The Times 10,000 of them are with McDonald's. And this is GOOD news???
 
#4
Yes Burger Flipping and pouring McFlurrys has now got a City and Guilds certificate! Its hardly going to pull us out of the Recession is it?
 
#5
Does anybody, I mean ANYBODY, believe ANYTHING uttered by this disgraced and wholly dishonest 'government'?

Doubts? Think 'Knife Crime Statistics'?
 
#6
I can't remember what the scheme was called before (the tories introduced it) but the pay was something like £30 for teenagers as they were getting qualifiactions/job placement as they worked. All in all A bit of a con the the employers exploited and it kept the unemployment figures down.
Labour appear to be recycling old ideas.
 
#7
I looked at our Adult Education service's booklet which was pushed through all our doors in September. The apprenticeship schemes appeared to be to do with Hairdressing, and Beauty treatment industries, not the thing you would normally associate with Apprenticeships such as Electricians, Mechanics or other useful skills.
 
#8
I think this announcement has some merit to it. That is not to say it is a good idea, just that it has good points.

Under an apprenticeship, the government provides grants to employers to take on apprentices. The grant is worth about 4000 pounds over 3 years. Essentially, the apprentice will go to college for about a month, then go to work for a period with the employer, then goes back to college to learn more stuff, then back to the employer, etc. There are variations on the scheme, like going to college for a longer period then going to the employer for a longer period. After 2 years, if all tests are done and there is sufficient work experience, the apprentice gets an NVQ level 2. If he does another year on the scheme, he can get an NVQ level 3.

It provides the industry with proven, competent workers.

The problem with this scheme lies unfortunately with the apprentices themselves. As apprenticeships are usually only available to people under 25, you have a significant proportion of apprentices who **** about at work, don't turn up for work, don't turn up for school and fail exams, etc. That leads to another problem: Employers do not want to take apprentices on. It is after all only 4k over 3 years. Not quite worth the grief, and the expense of hiring the apprentice.

I am not sure what the rationale behind restricting the scheme to under 25s is. Perhaps it is just a job creation scheme. Over 25s can usually get a shitty job somewhere anyway. So by targeting under 25s, they can keep these people in education/work by subsidising their employment/work.
 
#9
It was on the news earlier (can't find a link yet) that rolls royce had taken on more apprentices than it needs because it gets goverment money to do so.
So even if they all do well there won't be enough jobs for them all at the end of there training.
 
#10
EdwardCoke said:
Perhaps it is just a job creation scheme. Over 25s can usually get a shitty job somewhere anyway. So by targeting under 25s, they can keep these people in education/work by subsidising their employment/work.

By the time they finish the apprenticeship and are unemployed agan, Broon and his gang will be long gone.
 
#11
I found this thread an interesting read, not least because I'm surprised how little people appear to know about apprenticeships, why this actually is a good thing, why it's needed and where the money comes from etc!

There is a huge skills shortage in this country, now that may sound ridiculous in our current economic climate but it is a fact. None of those retail workers, finance workers, supply chain or service industry workers who have just lost their jobs are going to change that - they are unskilled or semi-skilled at best (I know some of them are "professional occupations" but believe me they are in the main unskilled) The Engineering Construction Industry (people who design and build, maintain, repair and dismantle power stations, gas storage, food processing, oil, grain, pharmaceuticals, nuclear etc etc) have a predicted skills shortage of 17000 people within 5 years (that is just one industry!). Apprentices are necessary to feed that skillset, in addition the industry is concentrating on re/ upskilling from other industries such as civil construction and manufacturing.

In 12-18 months we may pull out of this recession and it will be necessary to ramp back up in civil construction, retail, finance, logistics etc but at least we will have partially trained the next generation of people to support the industries that contribute to 20% of GDP regardless of recession.

The money comes from a variety of sources: govt central funds, LSC grants & education grants such as Train to Gain, training board grants gained from levy payments, employers contributions etc. Much of it has already been allocated and is there to be spent, most of it is also available for adults undergoing retraining schemes and to their employers (including train to gain up to level 3 for second NVQ's under the new sector compact agreements).

Training is also an industry in itself don't forget, an increase in apprenticeship and general training contributes by feeding directly back into the economy.

So, whilst I understand the scepticism expressed in many posts (I'm no Labour fan) trust me on this, this is far from a bad idea and the sort of thing a socialist party should have been thinking about for the last few years.
 
#12
I remain sceptical that the likes of McDonalds provides sufficient "skills" to be called an apprenticeship provider. I myself served an apprenticeship by attending an Apprentices College, and had the opportunity to enhance my school education as well as learn a number of skills which have kept me in the workplace for 30 years.

OK McDonalds may teach accounting and may be a lead into management, but we need engineers, plumbers, mechanics, and electricians for industry, not hairdressers, beauty advisers and burger flippers. With the declining standard of main stream education we have seen over the past 12 years, the rush for more university education (teaching media studies etc) I dont see where these skilled workers are coming from.
 
#13
If it helps I have tried to take on an apprentice for 6 months now and been offered 3 by Somerset Skills. Last Summer they lined up 2, neither turned up for an interview, one gave as an excuse she overslept. Just before Christmas I agred to take on an apprentice and completed all the forms, risk assessments passed an inspection and she phones in the day before and says she doesnt want the responsibility of having to work.
I admit £80 - £100 a week is not a a huge amount (but better than the dole surely) that said you do get experience, a qualification and in the midst of a recession some money coming in.
I am now recruiting 3 clerical staff and no i dont want an apprentice.
Rant over
 
#14
chieftiff said:
The money comes from a variety of sources:
No it doesn't it comes from 1: The taxpayer.

msr
 
#15
stacker1 said:
I can't remember what the scheme was called before (the tories introduced it) but the pay was something like £30 for teenagers as they were getting qualifiactions/job placement as they worked. All in all A bit of a con the the employers exploited and it kept the unemployment figures down.
Labour appear to be recycling old ideas.
The old schemes were YOP and then YTS.

I agree that this is another con by this government to keep employment figures down.

It does not target the trades in engineering where the main shortfalls are, IIRC this problem was around approx 10yrs ago so why has it taken this long for this new idea to surface. McDonalds will now pay their staff even less out of their own pockets, than they currently do for the oik behind the counter.
 
#17
stinker said:
stacker1 said:
I can't remember what the scheme was called before (the tories introduced it) but the pay was something like £30 for teenagers as they were getting qualifiactions/job placement as they worked. All in all A bit of a con the the employers exploited and it kept the unemployment figures down.
Labour appear to be recycling old ideas.
The old schemes were YOP and then YTS.

I agree that this is another con by this government to keep employment figures down.

It does not target the trades in engineering where the main shortfalls are, IIRC this problem was around approx 10yrs ago so why has it taken this long for this new idea to surface. McDonalds will now pay their staff even less out of their own pockets, than they currently do for the oik behind the counter.
I was doing a YTS in the mid 80's beofre I joined up. It was a total con. Freinds I went to school with did 'real' apprentiships with companies like BAe, BNFL, British Leyland and Royal Ordnance who were all big employers in West Lancashire back then. they were all quite well paid (far better than the £15 a week YTS) and were always employed by their parent company on completeing their engineering and mechanical apprentiships. In fact the entry levels for these positions was always quite high and at the time I wasn't capable of gettign on one as you needed excellent maths and science grades at GCE\O level just to be selected.
I have no douby that these are NOT real apprentiships at all.
 
#18
stacker1 said:
It was on the news earlier (can't find a link yet) that rolls royce had taken on more apprentices than it needs because it gets goverment money to do so.
So even if they all do well there won't be enough jobs for them all at the end of there training.
Do you not think some may drop out?
 
#19
Retd_crab said:
If it helps I have tried to take on an apprentice for 6 months now and been offered 3 by Somerset Skills. Last Summer they lined up 2, neither turned up for an interview, one gave as an excuse she overslept. Just before Christmas I agred to take on an apprentice and completed all the forms, risk assessments passed an inspection and she phones in the day before and says she doesnt want the responsibility of having to work.
I admit £80 - £100 a week is not a a huge amount (but better than the dole surely) that said you do get experience, a qualification and in the midst of a recession some money coming in.
I am now recruiting 3 clerical staff and no i dont want an apprentice.
Rant over
Not sure what sector you are in but it is probably possible to source your own apprentice IE you find someone you would like to hire as an apprentice, then go to the relevant sector skills council.

I understand your predicament though. In a former life, I had some dealings with apprenticeships and the number of kids throwing away apprenticeship places that could have been taken by someone else astounded me. It struck me as being very ungrateful.

Most people interested in an apprenticeship cannot even find someone willing to take them on. :x
 
#20
EdwardCoke said:
Most people interested in an apprenticeship cannot even find someone willing to take them on. :x
Here are two organisations who will both be taking on a significant number of apprentices this year, they only do "proper apprenticeships" and raise their funds from an Industrial Training Levy (ie they use the industries own money to fund training and also tap into European funds etc) all under some apparently little known legislation (at least on here) known as the Industrial Training Act (1982)

Engineering Construction Industry Training Board

ConstructionSkills

There are others such as the new Film Industry Training Board.
 

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