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.338 Lupa blank rounds

#1
Has anybody managed to get hold of any as the bomb dump geeks say that the company who where to supply it have made a duff batch which failed the testing phase.

Just woundering if anybody else is having the same problems?
 
#2
They are available, but in very limited quantities.

We wanted 6000 each of Ball and Blank. No problem with the ball, but only got 1000 blank.
 
#3
OK I might be being a bit naive but is there a requirement for 338 Lapua blank carts?

Surely the sniper course utilises the 7.62 rifle, with successful students then trained up on the 338.

As for dry exercises, as no live rounds are winging the way down to a target, the 7.62 rifles could be used.

Or am I missing something?
 
#4
Yes there is a requirement, especially when the same weapons will be used for a TES phase. Bit pointless swapping between weapons just because blank can't be provided.
 
#5
dingerr said:
Yes there is a requirement, especially when the same weapons will be used for a TES phase. Bit pointless swapping between weapons just because blank can't be provided.
Well said that man. the only reason there staying with the L96 for marksmanship training is down to the cost.

All the fieldcraft stuff ( Stalks and Cam + Con ) still need to be done with blank or your going to start to run out of staff to sit in the OP :)
 
#6
Perhaps a bit obvious but:

Lapua said:
Lapua offers a complete selection of .338 Lapua magnum ammunition including Ball, Armour Piercing, Armour Piercing Incendiary, HPBT, Blank and Drill cartridges. The trajectory of the bullets is tailored to match, so there is no need to change the sight setup when changing a bullet type.
UK Importer: http://www.vikingarms.com

If only it was that easy hey?
 
#7
Rocky_Yeti said:
dingerr said:
Yes there is a requirement, especially when the same weapons will be used for a TES phase. Bit pointless swapping between weapons just because blank can't be provided.
Well said that man. the only reason there staying with the L96 for marksmanship training is down to the cost.

All the fieldcraft stuff ( Stalks and Cam + Con ) still need to be done with blank or your going to start to run out of staff to sit in the OP :)
Still playing devils advocate here.

As the difference between the two weapons is just the calibre, I still can't see the reason why L96 can't be used.

Now, if it's because L96 are not issued to active sniper teams fair enough. However, if there is no lead flying down range, there is no difference in the way the weapon is used.

Don't get me wrong I'm all in favour of having the blank available to the required user quantities and not cost based. But, like Dinger we have to fight the bean counters and need good strong arguments from the users to throw into the ring.

I think one of main reasons for the 338s not replacing all the 7.62s might also have something to do with the lack of ranges on which it can be used, (this might have been improved over the last year).
 
#8
Flying Felix said:
Rocky_Yeti said:
dingerr said:
Yes there is a requirement, especially when the same weapons will be used for a TES phase. Bit pointless swapping between weapons just because blank can't be provided.
Well said that man. the only reason there staying with the L96 for marksmanship training is down to the cost.

All the fieldcraft stuff ( Stalks and Cam + Con ) still need to be done with blank or your going to start to run out of staff to sit in the OP :)
Still playing devils advocate here.

As the difference between the two weapons is just the calibre, I still can't see the reason why L96 can't be used.

Now, if it's because L96 are not issued to active sniper teams fair enough. However, if there is no lead flying down range, there is no difference in the way the weapon is used.

Don't get me wrong I'm all in favour of having the blank available to the required user quantities and not cost based. But, like Dinger we have to fight the bean counters and need good strong arguments from the users to throw into the ring.

I think one of main reasons for the 338s not replacing all the 7.62s might also have something to do with the lack of ranges on which it can be used, (this might have been improved over the last year).

Its not just the size of the round which has changed so has the sighting system, Bi-Pod, Supresser, Spot Weld, Butt Spike, Folding Stock plus all the CES such as Wind Meter, range finder, Chronograhic etc etc..... which is why firing L96 upto 600m then swiching to 338 is a load of bonk in my books

As for the ranges most field firing areas have set up 4 or 6 lane ranges using SAPU's and a number of CGR ranges now have the ticks in the boxes for 338 back to 1000m's
 
#9
Rocky_Yeti said:
Flying Felix said:
Rocky_Yeti said:
dingerr said:
Yes there is a requirement, especially when the same weapons will be used for a TES phase. Bit pointless swapping between weapons just because blank can't be provided.
Well said that man. the only reason there staying with the L96 for marksmanship training is down to the cost.

All the fieldcraft stuff ( Stalks and Cam + Con ) still need to be done with blank or your going to start to run out of staff to sit in the OP :)
Still playing devils advocate here.

As the difference between the two weapons is just the calibre, I still can't see the reason why L96 can't be used.

Now, if it's because L96 are not issued to active sniper teams fair enough. However, if there is no lead flying down range, there is no difference in the way the weapon is used.

Don't get me wrong I'm all in favour of having the blank available to the required user quantities and not cost based. But, like Dinger we have to fight the bean counters and need good strong arguments from the users to throw into the ring.

I think one of main reasons for the 338s not replacing all the 7.62s might also have something to do with the lack of ranges on which it can be used, (this might have been improved over the last year).

Its not just the size of the round which has changed so has the sighting system, Bi-Pod, Supresser, Spot Weld, Butt Spike, Folding Stock plus all the CES such as Wind Meter, range finder, Chronograhic etc etc..... which is why firing L96 upto 600m then swiching to 338 is a load of bonk in my books

As for the ranges most field firing areas have set up 4 or 6 lane ranges using SAPU's and a number of CGR ranges now have the ticks in the boxes for 338 back to 1000m's
What do you think of the new bipod compared with the old one?
 
#10
Rocky_Yeti said:
Its not just the size of the round which has changed so has the sighting system, Bi-Pod, Supresser, Spot Weld, Butt Spike, Folding Stock plus all the CES such as Wind Meter, range finder, Chronograhic etc etc..... which is why firing L96 upto 600m then swiching to 338 is a load of bonk in my books
All good reasons to shoot with the 338 rather than the 7.62, but still not justification for blanks.
 
#11
Harris Bi-pod Not to bad looks a bit Heath Robinson takes a bit longer to set up but has been used by civvy target shooters for ages as is VERY stable but if it is robust enough is yet to been seen. But still gets my thumbs up.
 
#12
Flying Felix said:
All good reasons to shoot with the 338 rather than the 7.62, but still not justification for blanks.
Well yes it is. Two different weapons. It would be like saying we don't need 5.56mm Blank Link because we have 7.62mm Blank Link.

As for costs, its small fry, so thats a poor excuse.
 
#13
dingerr said:
Well yes it is. Two different weapons. It would be like saying we don't need 5.56mm Blank Link because we have 7.62mm Blank Link.

As for costs, its small fry, so thats a poor excuse.
My bold.

Dinger I'm surprised at you, that's a silly comparison.

Do we have a GPMG that fires a 5.56 round or a Minime that fires a 7.62 round............No? They have completely different working parts, designs and drills.

The only difference in the design between the 338 and the 7.62 is the fact that the 7.62 is short action and the 338 is long action. If it wasn't for the length of the 338 cart case you would be able to swap barrels on the same weapon.
As far as the exercises, in which you would shoot blanks there is no difference in the weapon.
 
#14
Rocky_Yeti said:
Harris Bi-pod Not to bad looks a bit Heath Robinson takes a bit longer to set up but has been used by civvy target shooters for ages as is VERY stable but if it is robust enough is yet to been seen. But still gets my thumbs up.
Noisy, tangling pile of old crap with no proper tilt and pan facility and prone to falling off at random. Impossible to fit or remove whilst wearing gloves or in cold weather. I just do not believe this has been through cold weather trials. Will not snug into turf or mud. Sinks in gravel. Popular with civvies because you can fit it on anything and it's dirt cheap. On the range it doesn't matter if your bipod goes DOOINNNNGGG! when you deploy it or if it falls off after three rounds. I'd disagree about it being stable - just see what happens when you lean into it!

I wouldn't give you tuppence for one but we'll see how you get on. If you can keep hold of a Parker Hale/AI one I'd strongly recommend that you do.
 
#15
Flying Felix said:
Dinger I'm surprised at you, that's a silly comparison.
It was a purposely crass comparison to highlight that there is no substitute for the real thing. You can't expect someone to train on a different system and be proficient and professional on a system they will use during Ops.

The only difference in the design between the 338 and the 7.62 is the fact that the 7.62 is short action and the 338 is long action. If it wasn't for the length of the 338 cart case you would be able to swap barrels on the same weapon.
As far as the exercises, in which you would shoot blanks there is no difference in the weapon.
You've lost me FF, but then i have never been into shooting. I feel the point you are trying to make is irrelevant as the 8.59 is/has superseded the 7.62.

I'm also a bit perturbed that you would suggest an item of ammunition is pointless. Lets not forget that this is our stock in trade and therefore all ammunition (with the exception of Grenade Hand Nuclear XL1E1) is worthwhile.
 
#16
I know that originally, the 338s were to replace the 7.62s in the sniper teams and the 7.62s were going to go to “sharpshooters” and I was hoping that a current sniper or sniper instructor was able to confirm this.
If this was the case then that’s the argument there (see my earlier post).
I know how uneducated and problematic the procurement agency is, for example I know of one guy who was unable to understand why you can’t put a .50 on a weapons mount for a GPMG.

I still believe that the .338 blank should be available and my personal argument to justify this is quite simply…….because they should!

But no matter what my personal feelings are we need a good reason to throw at the bean counters, ideally from the snipers themselves something like:

“We deploy into the field on exercise in which we will be undertaking live and blank firing, we do not deploy with 7.62 rifles”.
 
#17
Is 338 blank procurement really so difficult? It's an off the shelf item. I can see that it might be relatively expensive due to economies of scale but I bet the MoD can spend more money talking about it than the rounds will cost.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#18
EX_STAB said:
Is 338 blank procurement really so difficult? It's an off the shelf item. I can see that it might be relatively expensive due to economies of scale but I bet the MoD can spend more money talking about it than the rounds will cost.
Theres the nub of the problem, suits wasting money denying uniform something needed!
 
#19
Flying Felix,

If in your thinking you can carry around a A1 on exercises, as its the same weapon as an A2! And you could also carry/wear the old CBA and not Osprey. These are all the same as each other but are very different!

There are reasons for training with the right kit.

Stilts
 
#20
EX_STAB said:
Is 338 blank procurement really so difficult? It's an off the shelf item. I can see that it might be relatively expensive due to economies of scale but I bet the MoD can spend more money talking about it than the rounds will cost.
Not really. The first year for procurement is always slow and in this case the focus (quite rightly) is on getting ball ammunition out there.
 

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