3 Tier mess system

#1
Well, newly promoted grownup i was shocked to see the groups and meetings of the different ranks in the club. The Badge doesn't acknowledge the pigs and chickens at the bottom and even the staffies get swepped by the wayside as the SSM's fight amongst who is going to chat the badge up. Anyone else felt like its not what the crusty old SNCOs' discribed it?
 
#4
Really there are only 2 groups in the mess.

The RSM with his sycophantic acolytes and everyone else. Bizarrely it is the former that have all the so-called Bright Ideas for the good and benefit of the mess, and the latter who temper them with comon sense theny make them work.

Guess which group, as a FofS, I was in.
 
#5
Nothing new then
 
G

GLESGA-NED

Guest
#7
sc_obvious said:
I always chuckle to myself watching the various RD types desperately try to tongue the badge !
Not just the RDs matey. A fair few supervisors getting brown for their yearly tick in the box activities. And in some cases in my opinion and quite unfortunately we seem to be going backwards creating little underground political cliques amid the vast sea of painted smiles and career laughs. The question is to join them or not?
 
#8
GLESGA-NED said:
sc_obvious said:
I always chuckle to myself watching the various RD types desperately try to tongue the badge !
Not just the RDs matey. A fair few supervisors getting brown for their yearly tick in the box activities. And in some cases in my opinion and quite unfortunately we seem to be going backwards creating little underground political cliques amid the vast sea of painted smiles and career laughs. The question is to join them or not?
An interesting question - if the Badge, as he should, has the ear of the CO then do you dare to not 'play the game' and come SJAR time pay the price for it ? Or think sod it, I'll lick his arrse because I want a better pension ?

Moral courage I suppose but then, moral courage has never paid the mortgage :D

Of course, this all depends on the standard of RSM that you have.
 
S

stabradop

Guest
#9
Dont think its any different in civvy street either, been to plenty of civil service do's when I worked for them and you always got the careerists sucking up to the boss. I gave up going in the end.
 
#10
You could always do what I did, and not play the game.....and leave as a Staffy :D
 
G

GLESGA-NED

Guest
#11
stabradop said:
Dont think its any different in civvy street either, been to plenty of civil service do's when I worked for them and you always got the careerists sucking up to the boss. I gave up going in the end.
Agreed. But it shouldn’t be like that, Civi Street is fuelled by money so it is understandable. Maybe I'm being to glazy eyed and nostalgic but there was that time when people stood by you or told you to your face to fcuk off. I believe that time is now gone. If you don't play the game, tow the party line and get the tie or whatever you want to call it no matter how good you are then your fcuked. And people know this.
 
#12
We do have a real problem in the Signals though. Our RSMs are failed tradesmen who have no supervisory training. They have a very small domain, and an incredibly short time, in which to establish a reputation and engender respect from the CO. The mess is their only train set. Their commissioning rates are the lowest of all, and even then they normally get the shittiest jobs; MTO, UWO, QM etc.

In the infantry, upon which our regimental model is still based, the RSM is the best soldier in the unit and everyone knows it and respects him. He probably has the most experience and certainly has a proper operational role. (He is the FofS, YofS and Supervisor all in one package) Ours on the other hand meet none of these criteria and are reduced to licking up to the CO and Adjt, for which they need a large cast of support lickers below them.

Having said all that I have met one or 2 good ones over my many years, but they are unfortunately outnumbered by the knobs.

Baggy
 
#13
sc_obvious said:
GLESGA-NED said:
sc_obvious said:
I always chuckle to myself watching the various RD types desperately try to tongue the badge !
Not just the RDs matey. A fair few supervisors getting brown for their yearly tick in the box activities. And in some cases in my opinion and quite unfortunately we seem to be going backwards creating little underground political cliques amid the vast sea of painted smiles and career laughs. The question is to join them or not?
An interesting question - if the Badge, as he should, has the ear of the CO then do you dare to not 'play the game' and come SJAR time pay the price for it ? Or think sod it, I'll lick his arrse because I want a better pension ?

Moral courage I suppose but then, moral courage has never paid the mortgage :D

Of course, this all depends on the standard of RSM that you have.
I don't lick arrse, I find it has diminshing returns..... You can spend 364 days kissing the Badge's (or anyone else) arrse, and then get pipped at the post by a last minute good deed that pushes you in to the "middle third".

Yes, I might not get promoted beyond my current level of greatness, but I find it relaxing out of the rat race.

I like the idea of supervisory training for the RDs, on a par with the Fore/Yeomen, and the RSM should be the BEST soldier in the Regiment.... not tradesman, but Soldier.
 
#14
What I find amusing, are those bellends who turn up at mess meetings with their WO1 badge tie pins on. Fcuking strokers. Why not wear uniform instead, just so EVERYONE knows what rank you are?!!!!!! This was in Blandford though, so what did I expect?

Rant over.
 
#15
Baggy - bugger me if I was not having this very same conversation with someone at work last week.
My look at is, an RSM fm an Inf Bn understands the wpn systems employed by the Bn; a RSM fm an artillery regt understands the wpns systems the Regt can bring to bear; an RE RSM understand Cbt Engineering, a R SIGNALS RSM understands next to nothing about ICS deployed by the soldiers in a signal regt...why?
I have had 'disagreements' with pers over this when the answer back when questioned was 'I don't give a f&ck' I am RD and don't need to know or care about it!' When faced with a total lack of coherent argument such as that you cannot even begin to reason about why they should know, if only so the soldiers in the Regt can again see them as the senior soldier within that Regt.

....and don't start me on DE officers who have one or two buzz words, throw them into the conversation to try and appear to understand modern ICS, the number of DE officers who in the past 3 – 4 years have mentioned Ptarmigan and Clansman to me – I f*cking despair!
 
#16
RSM, failed tradesemen, oh how we laughed. Keep telling yourself that if it gets you to sleep better (unless your talking about Techs in which case you are spot on).
 
#18
Returning this thread to its original topic, I see a few reasons why there is a perceived segregation:

1. On a work level, the WOs need to speak to the RSM when they can catch him/her in the Mess, as do the WO2s who need to speak to the SSgts and the SSgts who need to speak to Sgts when they can (i.e. Mess Meetings, tea and toast, etc). The Mess is where a lot of work is done.

2. The people we generally work with on a day-to-day basis are also the people we build social relationships with too so, as in the groups above, that is who we drink with.

3. The badge and his peers are mid to late 30s, most of the WO2s and SSgts around about 30 and the Sgts mid to late 20s (and yes of course there are exceptions) but generally we will mix among those rank groups as we are likely to have similar interests based on our age.

Not hard and fast, just my thoughts

p.s. The same is true in the Officers’ Mess. (Subalterns, Junior LEs, Senior LEs, etc).
 
#19
greenbaggyskin said:
We do have a real problem in the Signals though. Our RSMs are failed tradesmen who have no supervisory training. They have a very small domain, and an incredibly short time, in which to establish a reputation and engender respect from the CO. The mess is their only train set. Their commissioning rates are the lowest of all, and even then they normally get the shittiest jobs; MTO, UWO, QM etc.

In the infantry, upon which our regimental model is still based, the RSM is the best soldier in the unit and everyone knows it and respects him. He probably has the most experience and certainly has a proper operational role. (He is the FofS, YofS and Supervisor all in one package) Ours on the other hand meet none of these criteria and are reduced to licking up to the CO and Adjt, for which they need a large cast of support lickers below them.

Having said all that I have met one or 2 good ones over my many years, but they are unfortunately outnumbered by the knobs.

Baggy
OK, I'll bite.
Greenbaggy, that is a classic!! I bow down to your all seeing take on the RD community and your many years of service.
LE Officers from this so called "small domain" have been employed as 2IC Regts, Regt Ops Officers, Training Majors, Foreign Exchange Officers, Sqn Commanders (not just Sp Sqn) and a wide variety of staff posts over the last 10 years or so. The days of the limited QM Commission have long gone. Granted, a great deal of it is to do with the lack of suitably qualified DE Majors, but very few of the LE community (of all streams) have let the side down when asked to step into these posts.
As for the RD having the lowest commissioning rate of all, you are talking though your ar*e - it is all about how many posts need to be filled in a commissioning year and guess what, if you combine all the Supervisory Commissions together, they add up to slightly more than the RD commissions.
I have served with a total of 5 Infantry Battalions and a Gunner Regiment in various Rear Link Detachments and in my experience it is not always a given that the badge is the best soldier - far from it!
The bottom line is that every cap badge has its share of wasters and sycophants but to suggest that the R SIGNALS has a monopoly on them is absurd. Have you ever thought that the reason an RSM appears to be close to the CO and Adjt (licking up in your words) is that he (or she) usually shares a corridor with them! :roll:
Get over yourself.
Rant over.
 
#20
slipperman said:
greenbaggyskin said:
We do have a real problem in the Signals though. Our RSMs are failed tradesmen who have no supervisory training. They have a very small domain, and an incredibly short time, in which to establish a reputation and engender respect from the CO. The mess is their only train set. Their commissioning rates are the lowest of all, and even then they normally get the shittiest jobs; MTO, UWO, QM etc.

In the infantry, upon which our regimental model is still based, the RSM is the best soldier in the unit and everyone knows it and respects him. He probably has the most experience and certainly has a proper operational role. (He is the FofS, YofS and Supervisor all in one package) Ours on the other hand meet none of these criteria and are reduced to licking up to the CO and Adjt, for which they need a large cast of support lickers below them.

Having said all that I have met one or 2 good ones over my many years, but they are unfortunately outnumbered by the knobs.

Baggy
OK, I'll bite.
Greenbaggy, that is a classic!! I bow down to your all seeing take on the RD community and your many years of service.
LE Officers from this so called "small domain" have been employed as 2IC Regts, Regt Ops Officers, Training Majors, Foreign Exchange Officers, Sqn Commanders (not just Sp Sqn) and a wide variety of staff posts over the last 10 years or so. The days of the limited QM Commission have long gone. Granted, a great deal of it is to do with the lack of suitably qualified DE Majors, but very few of the LE community (of all streams) have let the side down when asked to step into these posts.
As for the RD having the lowest commissioning rate of all, you are talking though your ar*e - it is all about how many posts need to be filled in a commissioning year and guess what, if you combine all the Supervisory Commissions together, they add up to slightly more than the RD commissions.
I have served with a total of 5 Infantry Battalions and a Gunner Regiment in various Rear Link Detachments and in my experience it is not always a given that the badge is the best soldier - far from it!
The bottom line is that every cap badge has its share of wasters and sycophants but to suggest that the R SIGNALS has a monopoly on them is absurd. Have you ever thought that the reason an RSM appears to be close to the CO and Adjt (licking up in your words) is that he (or she) usually shares a corridor with them! :roll:
Get over yourself.
Rant over.
My bold but you can't add all the Supervisory commissions together as they are not available to all Supervisors ! It would be interesting to see how many WO1 RD and how many Supervisors posts there are and see what the commissioning rates are.
 
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