3 Phase (Germany) cooker wiring question

#1
Have a cooker that was wired in by a supposedly professional sparky. It is 3 phase, which is the norm here in Germany. The cooker has never functioned properly since being wired in! ie. only the rings and the fan heat work. It worked perfectly before moving into the new home (not mine!).

My question is this....all the wires seem to be correct on looking and am wondering if the two black wires could have anything to do with this? Reason being, that without a multi meter etc, I expect that they could be the wrong way round?

Any help much appreciated!
 
#2
Mate, if you re not sure, dont **** around with 3-phase. I had a pretty fortunate escape 20 yrs ago, whilst disconnecting the wires I got a massive shock in the arm that was holding the screwdriver, thank ****, my elbow was resting on the still earthed housing so it stayed at the arm. I ve steered ear of all wires since then!
 
#3
Oh I have no intentions of ******* around with it! Was just curious if this could be the reason that the cooker doesn't function right and I will get a certified sparky to sort it if this is what is wrong......even if it means buying a new cooker!

Oh and funnily enough, I was "bitten" by the electric here in the 80's - even though I had turned all the fuses off in the flat!!
 
#4
I have the Starkstrom cables for my portable machines, and its weird here, you d think the Germans would have 5 different coloured wires, but no, 2 blacks.

On a number of occasions on different building sites, I ve had circular saws rotating the wrong way, not ******* funny. Simples, swap the 2 blacks and the polarity is then correct.
 
#5
Yep and that is what I suspect is the case here!..If I find it is the case and it endangered the of the cooker, then I will wire the ******* sparky to it!
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
2 black wires?

I'm not a proper sparky although my dad was and I've done a fair bit but three phase over there is usually 3 pos 1 neg 1 earth IIRC

blue is neg

brown in 1 live
black is 2 live
black and white is 3 live.

never had to wire it in but over here when I did kitchens a lot of appliances had jumpers to bridge the phase terminals due to the UK using one big wire instead of lots of little ones. if you only have two feeds then it could be missing a jumper to the third one. if you have three terminals and two wires then it could be the two wired terminals have a jumper in there which shouldn't be. I think its 1 wire for 230v and two for 400v with the third remaining dormant most of the time unless its a big range jobby.

I seem to remember that each phase is connected to a set bit so one phase would be 2 rings and the oven, and other would be 2 rings and fan, and the third for the grill.

what's the cooker and does the manual have an installers bit?
 
#7
There are five wires coming into the connection box - from memory, one brown, one blue, one yellow and green, then two black. This is mirrored by the cable from the cooker. Having looked at several connections over the last four years, this seems to be the standard. Which is why I suspect that the clack wires are the wrong way round.

Don't have that info at the moment, but could get it over the next few days.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
I think one of the blacks should have a white ring on it - shouldn't make a difference to the supply unless one is dead I reckon which would show in the fuse box or with a meter.

from what I've just read, a standard house cooker would only need one of the blacks to take it to 400v but usually you have L1 L2 L3 N E terminals

what make is it?
 
#9
Didn't notice a white band at any time, so will have another shufty. As for the make, not a clue just now; the wiring block seems to be one of 'just' wiring same coloured wires together, ie. blue to blue. I suspect that the original sparky is at fault here!
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
Didn't notice a white band at any time, so will have another shufty. As for the make, not a clue just now; the wiring block seems to be one of 'just' wiring same coloured wires together, ie. blue to blue. I suspect that the original sparky is at fault here!
if he didn't test the installation fully then yes he is.
 
#11
Can't see what the issue is if the 2 blacks are not the correct way round. It is not a 3 phase motor so therefore you are not going to have an issue for phase rotation. If it requires a phase to neutral, chances are that one of your phases is not on due to a fuse blowing or non connection upstream. Phase to phase for a cooker ring does not make sense as it will increase the V.
They are wired in 3 phase to balance the local distribution system, unlike UK where we feed houses on a phase each.
However, to test it, grab a multimeter and check the voltage readings of the cables against the earth. All should be 230V with the exception of the neutral. Then to confirm the phases, phase to phase should be 400V.
 

B_AND_T

MIA
Book Reviewer
#12
Not being an electrcian ora nything, my main question is why are you ******* about with an oven when the wife is home?
 
#13
Not being an electrcian ora nything, my main question is why are you ******* about with an oven when the wife is home?
It's not my oven! :wink:
 
#15
Can't see that the problem is phase rotation; there are no 3-phase motors in a cooker. The loads are all resistive apart unless you have a fan, the motor for which will be single phase.

Either a phase is not live or there is a fault in the cooker. Check the individual phase fuses or breakers at your panel and replace / switch to on as necessary. If the fuse blows / breaker trips, get a sparky in to find the fault and repair.

If all are OK, check the phase voltage at the cooker switch with a multimeter. If all are live, the fault is in the cooker. Get a cooker repair man in.
 
#16
Faulty cooker is my bet. I've wired up a few German cookers and it doesn't seem to matter which way round the black wires go.
 
#17
There are five wires coming into the connection box - from memory, one brown, one blue, one yellow and green, then two black. This is mirrored by the cable from the cooker. Having looked at several connections over the last four years, this seems to be the standard. Which is why I suspect that the clack wires are the wrong way round.

Don't have that info at the moment, but could get it over the next few days.
Grn/Yellow = earth, Blue = Neutral, Brown = phase, Black = phase. Black = phase, same as in the UK these days of "normalisation" with the EU . Very dangerous conversion in a country which had blue as a phase and black as neutral, killed a few in the early days of changeover.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#18
Jerry colours are:

L1 Brown L2 Black L3 Grey Neutral Blue Earth Green/yellow striped

Took photos of my sauna oven before I de-installed it some years back. The older cabling I had it connected to had L1-3 in black.
 
#19
Conductor colours are standardised globally under IEC60446. The preferred colours are Green and Yellow for the earth / ground, brown for one phase and black for the other two and blue for Neutral.

The UK has a specific clause allowing for the use of grey for the third phase, so UK phase colours are brown, black, blue. This coding has been adopted in a number of European countries (including Germany) and is expected to be adopted in the next version of IEC60446. The colour of the phase conductors is only really relevant when connecting 3-phase motors.

The USA, Canada and Japan have an exemption which allows the use of white for the Neutral and plane green for the ground (talk to a US electrician about earth and they will look at you confused!). I recently project managed a large university building wired to the US National Electric Code. It was bizarrely complicated, with multiple voltages and numerous transformers. Give me BS7671 or the European codes any day!
 
#20
Can't remember seeing grey, but will have another look when I'm next there.

Thanks for all the very informative information.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
T Army Reserve 1
T The Training Wing 7
W The Training Wing 17

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top