25th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall

Berlin Wall anniversary: How it rose and fell - in 60 seconds

7 November 2014
Last updated at 01:15 GMT

The 25th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall is being celebrated in Berlin this weekend.

After its construction on 13 August 1961, it became known as the Iron Curtain dividing western Europe from the communist East.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29938258?SThisFB



 
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Where's the bloody time gone? :-(

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It seems like ancient history now.

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I can remember sitting watching it live on TV at school during a modern studies class when I was 14 indeed where does the time go!
 
Me too - there's a shed load from my old unit over there this weekend. According to FB they're currently having a high old time in the Irish Pub at the Europa Centre :)

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I was there man!!!! :)

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4(T)

LE
I was back-packing around the world at the time the Wall came down, and was in a hostel in San Francisco. All the European travellers were clustered around my tiny Sony short-wave radio listening to the BBC news as it came in - because there wasn't a mention of those momentous events on any of the Spam media!
 

The_Gremlin

Old-Salt
As it is now 30 years since the end of the Berlin Wall, I will resurrect this thread:

Watching the event, one thing is evident to me - the ages of the East Germans flocking to the West. They are all young people. Communism lasted about 40 years in Eastern Europe - a generation.
It was the younger generation who largely brought communism down.

Since then another generation has grown up. It is 40 years since Thatcher was elected and with Corbyn, socialism (or a form of it) seems resurgent.

I see a comparison with Brexit and the end of communism. Most of the younger generation are against Brexit. That's why I don't think Brexit will happen. Because very rarely does the political direction go against the younger generation.

The older generation lost most when the Berlin Wall fell. They lost their pensions and their security. But the younger generation didn't care. They wanted change and they got it.
Ironically, the opposite is true with Brexit - the young wish to remain and they will not care for the older generation.
 
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As it is now 30 years since the end of the Berlin Wall, I will resurrect this thread:

Watching the event, one thing is evident to me - the ages of the East Germans flocking to the West. They are all young people. Communism lasted about 40 years in Eastern Europe - a generation.
It was the younger generation who largely brought communism down.

Since then another generation has grown up. It is 40 years since Thatcher was elected and with Corbyn, socialism (or a form of it) seems resurgent.

I see a comparison with Brexit and the end of communism. Most of the younger generation are against Brexit. That's why I don't think Brexit will happen. Because very rarely does the political direction go against the younger generation.

The older generation lost most when the Berlin Wall fell. They lost their pensions and their security. But the younger generation didn't care. They wanted change and they got it.
Ironically, the opposite is true with Brexit - the young wish to remain and they will not care for the older generation.
I was there and your analysis is incorrect!

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The_Gremlin

Old-Salt

The_Gremlin

Old-Salt
I recently watched a TV series where Levison Wood travelled from Russia to Iran. He stopped in one country. Georgia maybe. Anyway, a previous USSR country. The industry had gone. It was the older generation who said they missed the communist times.
Every documentary I wave watched has involved the older people saying the communist times were better. Never the young saying it.

For example, @DaManBugs is about 72 years old and he thinks the GDR was better than the capitalist reunification.
 

The_Gremlin

Old-Salt
Every way.
The fact that you can make that analysis shows there is no point in trying to explain complicated political situations to you.
History rhymes.
 
I recently watched a TV series where Levison Wood travelled from Russia to Iran. He stopped in one country. Georgia maybe. Anyway, a previous USSR country. The industry had gone. It was the older generation who said they missed the communist times.
Every documentary I wave watched has involved the older people saying the communist times were better. Never the young saying it.

For example, @DaManBugs is about 72 years old and he thinks the GDR was better than the capitalist reunification.
And with that justification you destroy any relevance you might have had.
 

DaManBugs

On ROPS
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Every documentary I wave watched has involved the older people saying the communist times were better. Never the young saying it.

For example, @DaManBugs is about 72 years old and he thinks the GDR was better than the capitalist reunification.
It’s true that I found the GDR to be generally “better” than what came after, the (Capitalist) reunification, but I’d like to rectify your statements, if I may: there was never a time when the Soviet Union (or indeed other member-states of the Warsaw Pact) was ever “Communist”.

A small tip. If you go to a country that calls itself “Socialist”, ask if the workers are in charge and if the answer is “No”, then it’s not Socialist. If you go to a country that calls itself “Communist”, ask if they still use money and if the answer is “No”, then it’s not Communist. Fairly simple, but telling. However, I digress.

In a fairly recent (2016) study, Dimap (a German survey company) asked folks in the former GDR if they thought that things had been better under the old regime. Of those aged over 50, fully 65 percent said that they were. Surprisingly, in the age group 25 to 35, 45 percent of those asked also agreed with that. So it’s worthwhile to examine how such results were produced.

The elements in any Capitalist society destroying and constantly corroding social morale are mainly comprised of: worries that folks won’t be able to keep their jobs; worries that folks won’t be able to pay their bills at the end of the month; worries that (in the US) a sudden medical problem will bankrupt them: worries if folks can keep a roof over their heads and will end up homeless and on the streets; worries that their children can’t access the education they need. The list goes on. Is it any wonder that so many folks in Capitalist societies have any number of grave mental health issues due to their constant fears and that they’re continually frustrated?

All those important points were never, ever an issue in the GDR. But, I hasten to add, that wasn’t because of the policies introduced by the East German regime. The population itself kept the basic idea of “Socialism” alive and made sure that the gobment took no steps to reduce the social advantages – the 1953 Insurrection was the start of it. I'd also like to mention the astonishing level of basic democracy in the workplace that was a given in the GDR but is wholly absent in Capitalist societies.

Indeed, another survey carried out nationwide elicited the result that 60 percent of all Germans believed that some of the social aspects of East Germany should be adopted nationwide, for instance, the outstanding GDR education system, universal childcare, collective healthcare etc.

The absolute shite regime in the GDR produced an awful lot of what was wrong, but it also produced a lot of what was right. Just saying, like.

MsG
 

The_Gremlin

Old-Salt
It’s true that I found the GDR to be generally “better” than what came after, the (Capitalist) reunification, but I’d like to rectify your statements, if I may: there was never a time when the Soviet Union (or indeed other member-states of the Warsaw Pact) was ever “Communist”.

A small tip. If you go to a country that calls itself “Socialist”, ask if the workers are in charge and if the answer is “No”, then it’s not Socialist. If you go to a country that calls itself “Communist”, ask if they still use money and if the answer is “No”, then it’s not Communist. Fairly simple, but telling. However, I digress.

In a fairly recent (2016) study, Dimap (a German survey company) asked folks in the former GDR if they thought that things had been better under the old regime. Of those aged over 50, fully 65 percent said that they were. Surprisingly, in the age group 25 to 35, 45 percent of those asked also agreed with that. So it’s worthwhile to examine how such results were produced.

The elements in any Capitalist society destroying and constantly corroding social morale are mainly comprised of: worries that folks won’t be able to keep their jobs; worries that folks won’t be able to pay their bills at the end of the month; worries that (in the US) a sudden medical problem will bankrupt them: worries if folks can keep a roof over their heads and will end up homeless and on the streets; worries that their children can’t access the education they need. The list goes on. Is it any wonder that so many folks in Capitalist societies have any number of grave mental health issues due to their constant fears and that they’re continually frustrated?

All those important points were never, ever an issue in the GDR. But, I hasten to add, that wasn’t because of the policies introduced by the East German regime. The population itself kept the basic idea of “Socialism” alive and made sure that the gobment took no steps to reduce the social advantages – the 1953 Insurrection was the start of it. I'd also like to mention the astonishing level of basic democracy in the workplace that was a given in the GDR but is wholly absent in Capitalist societies.

Indeed, another survey carried out nationwide elicited the result that 60 percent of all Germans believed that some of the social aspects of East Germany should be adopted nationwide, for instance, the outstanding GDR education system, universal childcare, collective healthcare etc.

The absolute shite regime in the GDR produced an awful lot of what was wrong, but it also produced a lot of what was right. Just saying, like.

MsG
Has a country ever existed that did not use money (in modern times)?
obviously people can barter, but currency provides a means of fungible exchange.
 
There was a prog on BBC 4 last night, part of the BBC’s celebration of the anniversary
It was only as I was watching it that I suddenly thought, in 12 years stationed in Germany I never visited Berlin! 4 of those were before the Wall came down. I can’t believe I never took the opportunity to visit, especially before the wall came down, I have never witnessed driving through CP Alpha, the Berlin Corridor, or seeing CP Charlie. I was definitely not a stay on camp type squaddie, I got out there and explored Germany, but for some reason not Berlin, it’s now on my “priority visit now” list
 
In what way?
I was 22 at the time and worked/socialised with a lot of West Berlin Police under the age of 30. To say that once the initial euphoria had worn off they were distinctly underwhelmed by the prospect of funding the 'Ossies' would be fair comment.

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