.223 winchester and .223 remington

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by semper, Feb 3, 2006.

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  1. hello , i keep hearing these two names , could you clear up the difference between the two and can both be used in the same 5.56 rifle or is there enough of a difference to cause a jam in the rifle ?
  2. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    Unless you mean a Winchester produced .223 Rem rd, the one you're thinking about is the .223 WSSM, (Winchester Super Short Magnum.)
    It's a short fat rd and won't come near to chambering in a regular .223/5.56 rifle.

    This pic should show the difference

    Left to right:
    22-250, .223 Rem., .223 WSSM, 7mm BR, .300 WSM

    The .223 WSSM should be available in three loadings:
    Supreme - 55-grain Ballistic Silvertip - mv 3850 fps
    Super-X - 55-grain Pointed Soft Point - mv 3850 fps
    Super-X - 64-grain PowerPoint - mv 3600 fps.

    For comparison:
    Win .22-250 - 55 gn head - 3680 fps
    Supreme .223 Rem - 64 gn PowerPoint - 3090 fps

    It depends on what you want the rifle for and how much RG you want to burn through it.
  3. cheers for that , there is so many different measurements.

    from what i understand, 5.56x45 is .223 winchester/remington ?
    5.56x51 whats the equivilent for that calibre ?

    reason i am asking is, i loaded a .223 winchester stamped round in and it got stuck , got it out tho , when i put a .223 remington stamped round in , it fitted perfectly , im just wondering if there is any major differences as when i looked at them side by side , i didn't really notice any difference :? could be different manufatcuring methods.
  4. ahh cheers thanks , it is much clearer , it seems that 5.56 NATO is not exactly the same as .223 remington , the differences are minor but enough to get stuck in the rifle as it did mine, my rifle is chambered to .223 remington.

    hence the difference between a "military" and "civilian" version of the same weapon. i.e. AK and Saiga, M16 and AR16s, probably something you all need to watch when you buy a rifle yourself.

    any more useful ammo links and reltions to different types of weapons ?
    this for everybody else's benefit as much as it is for me.
  5. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    That's .223 Remington, not Winchester. It can get confusing when one manufactuer makes rds in a calibre with designation containing another manufacturer's name.
    eg 270 Weatherby, 480 Ruger, 500 Smith & Wesson Magnum and 30-06 Sprngfield.
    All carts made by CorBon, but their name is associated with the maufacture, not the calibre.

    22/30 NATO, it's an experimental rd, a 7.62 case necked down to .22 cal.

    Left to right: 5.56mm APDS for scale, .22/30NATO (5.56x51), 5.56 Swiss Eiger (5.56x48), .22 APG (5.56x33), 4.85mm British (5x45), 4.6 H&K/CETME (4.6x36), .17 US (4.3x46), 4.35 German (4.3x45), 3.5 FN (3.5x50), .12 US (3x47).
  6. is it wrong that i am aroused?

  7. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    I have lots of 233 rem brass made and headstamped by winchester etc. There is no difference bar the fact that so called std Nato ball is loaded differently than most civ 223 ammo. Pressure is therefore different. I have Lapua brass in 5.56 which I reload and it is the same case as 223 rem. Rem got in on the 556 rd as Winchester got in on the T56 development round, it became the 7.62 x 51 also marketed as .308 winchester. without the civ manufacturors there would be a lot less development done and as a result the commercial spinoffs are necessary to pay for military R&D. The mil brass by rule of thumb is berdan primed apart from most 556 and a lot thicker brass as it has a rougher life and is subject to much greater stresses on the case during automatic feed and ejection. Do that with unannealed lapua and watch the dollars burn. The case in mil spec will hold marginally less powder meaning that civ brass is better for hot load development in bolt actions but not by much. The difference is proportional so a mil spec .50 BMG case holds the same ratio difference to a civ .50 BMG case as would 7.62 and 5.56. The next issue is crimping in of primers makes the mil spec primer pockets a pig and they always need reaming. The Bullet weights are also limited, and I feel this is more evident/visible in the 223, by barrel twist rates and the ability to stabilise the big bullets at the long range. You could always do what I did and load .308 220 grain Sierra HPBT Matchkings in a 7.62 P14 and get a V bull with half the wind adjustment needed than the Navy Palma team with Factory 155 grain sierras.
    Oops anorak slipped on again! I get a bee in my bonnet about the whole will it work, is it safe debate! If your rifle is in proof and the ammo is good then either should function safely. It may not be accurate, there are many variables but it will be safe! The septics spout this as SAAMI put warnings on the ammo boxes and there are very litigious wary! Yanks have no legal proof requirements and are therefore always looking for loopholes to sue. We however issued 7.62 Nato ammo to Civvy shooters at Bisley as the Notional Rifle assoc was scared of handloading!
    Your case may have been stuck for many reasons, badly sized brass, dirty chamber misfed etc. The reason that Civ semi auto versions are available in the states is because without the expensive license most military full autos are difficult but not illegal to own. Most states state that the rifle is legal if it is made with a percentage of US made parts, no flash eliminator, no bayonet fixing etc!