.22 Rifles through the system

#1
With the return of our LSWs for A2 conversion, we are no longer able to use the conversion kits and hence cannot use our indoor range.

Are .22 rifles available through the system, or should we divide the range up into offices for JPA, DII etc?

msr
 
#2
No8 Enfields are still on the books as current equipment, although i don't know about their actual availability through the system.

Many/ most units have had to apply for an FAC and obtain rifles privately. This isn't a big hassle, and the rifles are cheap enough.
 
#3
4(T) said:
No8 Enfields are still on the books as current equipment, although i don't know about their actual availability through the system.

Many/ most units have had to apply for an FAC and obtain rifles privately. This isn't a big hassle, and the rifles are cheap enough.
Cadets still use them as part of thier APC training, worth noting that A1's and L98 (Cadet rifles) can be used with H&K convertion kits on the many .22 ranges still in use, although I was on Longmoor indoor recently, and the roof leaks, its cold, costs a fortune to de-lead the place, etc etc, they might close it to save some £££ and improve the DCCT, still on the unoffical cards though
 
#4
Duty rumour is that a .22 conversion kit is being looked at, for the A2. I wouldn't hold your breath though.
 
#5
StabTiffy2B said:
Duty rumour is that a .22 conversion kit is being looked at, for the A2. I wouldn't hold your breath though.

I heard this one too, though the Q bloke said it was more then a rumour 8)
 
#6
msr said:
Are .22 rifles available through the system, or should we divide the range up into offices for JPA, DII etc?
Each of our sub-units held two Anschutz target rifles in the 1980s (alongside the No.8 rifles that belonged to the cadets); they were purchased from TAVRA funds, AIUI. As Options and SDR hit, these got centralised, until I counted 11 in our armoury.

I visited one UOTC that had 4 target rifles on its tick; the QM managed to get the range converted into stores (because there was a new range being built for the cadets next door), and four years later another RQMS managed to get the target rifles backloaded because "no-one had used them in two years".

They're out there, somewhere. It would be a screaming waste to flog them as surplus (these were some low-life rifles worth several hundred quid each, although the eleven I mentioned included some fairly battered old Match 54s) and I suspect that what goes in, can come out - given an appropriate justification.
 
#7
As the TA comes under the same 'RFCA' umbrella as the cadets, we might be able to bid through the system for one!

Perhaps we could be put on a waiting list to train with the ATC? :wink:
 
#8
Gravelbelly said:
msr said:
Are .22 rifles available through the system, or should we divide the range up into offices for JPA, DII etc?
Each of our sub-units held two Anschutz target rifles in the 1980s (alongside the No.8 rifles that belonged to the cadets); they were purchased from TAVRA funds, AIUI. As Options and SDR hit, these got centralised, until I counted 11 in our armoury.

I visited one UOTC that had 4 target rifles on its tick; the QM managed to get the range converted into stores (because there was a new range being built for the cadets next door), and four years later another RQMS managed to get the target rifles backloaded because "no-one had used them in two years".

They're out there, somewhere. It would be a screaming waste to flog them as surplus (these were some low-life rifles worth several hundred quid each, although the eleven I mentioned included some fairly battered old Match 54s) and I suspect that what goes in, can come out - given an appropriate justification.
Biathlon ski teams use Anschutz rifles IIRC there was a loan pool of them in Herford for BFG use, I would imagine this is reciprocated in UK try your skiing officer. Not quite an A1/2 but its better than sod all.
 
#9
Rumour was that .22 conversion kits for CdtGP would randomly convert them to full auto on occasion..
 
#10
msr said:
With the return of our LSWs for A2 conversion, we are no longer able to use the conversion kits and hence cannot use our indoor range.

Are .22 rifles available through the system, or should we divide the range up into offices for JPA, DII etc?

msr
MSR,

Best answer will come from the IPT that manages SA. Have PM'd you with a contact.

PAW
 
#11
krrc said:
Rumour was that .22 conversion kits for CdtGP would randomly convert them to full auto on occasion..
Utter rubbish, L98 Cadet GP is bolt action.......

check your facts and return
 
#12
Golf_one_one said:
krrc said:
Rumour was that .22 conversion kits for CdtGP would randomly convert them to full auto on occasion..
Utter rubbish, L98 Cadet GP is bolt action.......

check your facts and return
Except... isn't the H&K conversion kit blowback operated? Hence, no need for gas parts to play their part in the operating cycle.

I'm assuming that the trigger sear will engage before the bolt has travelled back far enough to collect another round from the magazine... but it's only a short amount of travel.
 
#13
Gravelbelly said:
Golf_one_one said:
krrc said:
Rumour was that .22 conversion kits for CdtGP would randomly convert them to full auto on occasion..
Utter rubbish, L98 Cadet GP is bolt action.......

check your facts and return
Except... isn't the H&K conversion kit blowback operated? Hence, no need for gas parts to play their part in the operating cycle.

I'm assuming that the trigger sear will engage before the bolt has travelled back far enough to collect another round from the magazine... but it's only a short amount of travel.
Very good point, I stand corrected, havent used the .22 conversion since 1996
However, would the .22 round have enough force to operate the heath robinson style cocking device bolted on to the RHS of the weapon?
 
#14
When the .22 kit goes into the cadet GP rifle the FOGB c*cking handle is replaced by something a bit more like the one on the A1.

Did once see one in my spacey days that must have had a duff sear, the lass next to me on the firing point blew away her whole magazine in about a second and a half! Fully automatic .22 in the hands of a spacey on an indoor range, no wonder the RCO looked a bit miffed.
 
#15
Question? As one who has fired both the SLR and L85A1 with .22" Conversion Kits (differant I know) but left before the Modification of SA80 to L85A2. Why is it the .22" Conversion Kit cannot be used on the A2?
 
#16
man_in_blue said:
When the .22 kit goes into the cadet GP rifle the FOGB c*cking handle is replaced by something a bit more like the one on the A1.

Did once see one in my spacey days that must have had a duff sear, the lass next to me on the firing point blew away her whole magazine in about a second and a half! Fully automatic .22 in the hands of a spacey on an indoor range, no wonder the RCO looked a bit miffed.
Nothing to do with the trigger mech (No full-auto setting on GP Rifle), more likely to be a firing pin stuck forward. this can also result in premature firing of the round, technically a breech explosion, but as it's .22" you probably wouldn't notice. :D
 
#18
Mike_2817 said:
Question? As one who has fired both the SLR and L85A1 with .22" Conversion Kits (differant I know) but left before the Modification of SA80 to L85A2. Why is it the .22" Conversion Kit cannot be used on the A2?
Its because of the recent mods they all had, less locking splines for example
 
#19
Themanwho said:
man_in_blue said:
When the .22 kit goes into the cadet GP rifle the FOGB c*cking handle is replaced by something a bit more like the one on the A1.

Did once see one in my spacey days that must have had a duff sear, the lass next to me on the firing point blew away her whole magazine in about a second and a half! Fully automatic .22 in the hands of a spacey on an indoor range, no wonder the RCO looked a bit miffed.
Nothing to do with the trigger mech (No full-auto setting on GP Rifle), more likely to be a firing pin stuck forward. this can also result in premature firing of the round, technically a breech explosion, but as it's .22" you probably wouldn't notice. :D
Makes sense, it was pretty cool as a fifteen year old though.
 
#20
Having spent nearly three years banging my head against this particular brick wall there are quite a lot of things you can legitimately do within the system quite a lot of people in the system who will try and prevent you.

First of all DInf stated ".22 shooting has no place in the training of the battle shot", don't have the date, but it was over two years ago. Lots of QM's jumped for joy and backloaded all the conversion kits, weapons, and ammunition.

Weapons outside the system are a nightmare as they have to be on an individual's fac so forget that one unless you enjoy mental anguish. QM's don't as whole like personal weapons and ammunition in their care. Neither does plod in some locations.

Bidding for .22 ammunition for a weapon not carried on your scales is problematic, however there is a bod who is reponsible for providing ammunition to those no authorised to draw it. Used to live in West Down camp, not sure if still there. Still not something you want to do on a regular basis.

Units can request the posession of weapons outwith the norm with the proper authorisation of a 2* and they then become part of the system. You can then get ammunition, spares etc with less hassle. Those old enough might remember 5AB Bde purchasing some Barrat .5s.

I gave up at the point where one 2*, who was a bit of a gravelbelly, would not authorise the purchase of a weapon that DInf had already stated was not required.
 

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