22 new chinooks some time

#1
can I baggsy a job guarding these hanger queens some won't even turn up for 8 years ffs :twisted:
 
#2
Go for your life. But before you do ffs post the link?
 

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
#3
Radio 2 news this morning stated that the Government had stated "...The first of which will be available and in use supporting our troops in Afghanistan by 2013" So do we see that as making a nonsense of any withdrawal of forces?
 
#4
We would have to buy them in any case; the current fleet is tired.

The only problem with this announcement is the news that there isn't any new money for them, and the cost will come from the already over-stretched Defence Budget!

That will be quite a few estate maintenance contracts that will go begging for a few years!

Litotes
 
#5
Legs said:
Radio 2 news this morning stated that the Government had stated "...The first of which will be available and in use supporting our troops in Afghanistan by 2013" So do we see that as making a nonsense of any withdrawal of forces?

Now then Legs, don't you go being all cynical on us.
Of course the Chinnoks won't turn uo before Obama has bailed out of Afghanistan (with the UK on his coatails)
The Chinooks will then not be required but Brown has achieved his cuts elsewhere in the budget by appearing to be doing exactly what everyone wants.

As well as the RAF cuts to pay for this Sky News reckons the Navy are going to lose a minesweeper and a survey ship into the bargain. I doubt they will be getting new ones to replace them when the way too late to be of much use Chinooks are cancelled in a years time.
 
#8
However, it doesn't state that the purchase of the 22 Chinooks is happening in part to cover the early retirement of the whole Sea King Fleet. This means re-location of the Merlin fleet to do the jobs left by the Sea King departure (air/sea/mountain rescue, RN sub hunting & commando helicopter force)

The 22 includes 2 to replace the ones recently lost in Ghan.
 
#9
And who is going to fly these Chinooks the civil service.
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#10
Cougar said:
However, it doesn't state that the purchase of the 22 Chinooks is happening in part to cover the early retirement of the whole Sea King Fleet. This means re-location of the Merlin fleet to do the jobs left by the Sea King departure (ais/sea/mountain rescue, RN sub hunting & commando helicopter force)

The 22 includes 2 to replace the ones recently lost in Ghan.
I would suggest that this 'order' will not only knacker any chance of a Sea King replacement but - and this is being whispered very quietly as yet - the Puma fleet as well.

The great delay in actually poroducing these Chinooks is in stark contrast to the Canadians. They decided, in their Manley Report, that they needed a lot of gear. They had previously operated Chinooks, but got rid of them in 2001. In around April 2008 they decided they needed Chinooks again. They got them, second-hand, from the USA (or rather picked them up in-theatre from the Yanks!) and were trained, from scratch, and operating with them by the Spring of this year. They did their first combined arms air assault, using their own Chginooks and Cougars earlier this year, and very good it was too.

Question: why can the Canadians get a new system in operations in well under a year, yet it will take us at least three years to simply add to ours?
 
#11
OldSnowy said:
Cougar said:
However, it doesn't state that the purchase of the 22 Chinooks is happening in part to cover the early retirement of the whole Sea King Fleet. This means re-location of the Merlin fleet to do the jobs left by the Sea King departure (ais/sea/mountain rescue, RN sub hunting & commando helicopter force)

The 22 includes 2 to replace the ones recently lost in Ghan.
I would suggest that this 'order' will not only knacker any chance of a Sea King replacement but - and this is being whispered very quietly as yet - the Puma fleet as well.

The great delay in actually poroducing these Chinooks is in stark contrast to the Canadians. They decided, in their Manley Report, that they needed a lot of gear. They had previously operated Chinooks, but got rid of them in 2001. In around April 2008 they decided they needed Chinooks again. They got them, second-hand, from the USA (or rather picked them up in-theatre from the Yanks!) and were trained, from scratch, and operating with them by the Spring of this year. They did their first combined arms air assault, using their own Chginooks and Cougars earlier this year, and very good it was too.

Question: why can the Canadians get a new system in operations in well under a year, yet it will take us at least three years to simply add to ours?
Agreed but I think the ones we have ordered are new so I imagine it depends on how fast Boeing can produce them, and even more so, how long it is going to take the RAF to select and train pilots!

From what I make out Merlin will replace Sea King, so does this mean any Merlin in theatre will be withdrawn to take up their new role.
 
#12
OldSnowy said:
Question: why can the Canadians get a new system in operations in well under a year, yet it will take us at least three years to simply add to ours?
Presumably because they aren't actually ever going to appear?

If this is at the cost of Puma/ SeaKing not being replaced and/or retired early doesn't that mean there is actually going to be a reduction in available helicopters?
 
#13
Why not go fishing for the Atlantic Conveyor? We are more likely to get (our) chinooks quicker that way than "MOD procurement". Look forward to seeing it on Sky.
 
#14
mad_mick said:
Why not go fishing for the Atlantic Conveyor, we are more likely to get (our) chinooks quicker that way than "MOD procurement". look forward to seeing it on Sky.

From what I heard, if you salvaged all the gear that went down with the Atlantic Conveyor you would be able to kit out a fairly substantial African Army quite well
 
#15
jagman said:
mad_mick said:
Why not go fishing for the Atlantic Conveyor, we are more likely to get (our) chinooks quicker that way than "MOD procurement". look forward to seeing it on Sky.

From what I heard, if you salvaged all the gear that went down with the Atlantic Conveyor you would be able to kit out a fairly substantial African Army quite well
Yes , very nice, and an ill-equiped British one in 1982 about 300 miles away appreciates the "black" humour.
 
#16
I believe the first 10 may well be remanufactured ex US Army ones bought through CHAPS as per the Canadians did.
 
#17
Oil_Slick said:
I believe the first 10 may well be remanufactured ex US Army ones bought through CHAPS as per the Canadians did.
Then why the comparatively long delievery time?
I understand the Canadians did it an awful lot faster than 3 years?
 
#18
jagman said:
Oil_Slick said:
I believe the first 10 may well be remanufactured ex US Army ones bought through CHAPS as per the Canadians did.
Then why the comparatively long delievery time?
I understand the Canadians did it an awful lot faster than 3 years?

Canadian Government: Let it be so, here's the cheque.

UK Government: Lets play this out as long as possible for maximum spin potential.



If we got them in a year like the Cannucks, that would be two years of 'we have committed to investment in our Forces' soundbites wasted.

Think political, think spin.
 
#19
And how many "simple" Chinooks could we get for the same money, do we need all the post cold war techo upgrades to take on the Taliban? Or just a simple moving platform and a few sensible self-preservation modifications? Of course, we could start putting carabineer points on Apaches. (I wish that last comment was a joke, but it wasn't). I have a feeling someone somewhere in time is going to Sioux. (Sorry, I couldn't help it, it had to be done!).
 
#20
Am I right in thinking that the amount of money being cut from MoD, RAF and RN leading, amongst other things, to 10,000 job losses is almost the same as the sum Gordon promised last week to help poor countries fight global warming?

Civil servants! Grasp your P45 with pride. As you sign on, rest secure in the knowledge that your sacrifice means that a mud hut somewhere in Africa has a spanking new windmill on the roof, even though there are no electrical appliances inside the hut.
 
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