.

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
It's a portmanteau term. At that time, there were multiple agencies operating from the Castle, including, but not limited to, other government departments, RIC Special Branch, the Auxiliaries and the real military intelligence guys. Generally the military types were either officers or ex-officers. There would have been clerical support provided by both locally employed civilians and military clerks, but no Intelligence Corps soldiers or NCOs in the way we'd recognise them.

Google the "Cairo Gang" and what happened to them when Michael Collins sorted them out for some insight. They were touted to buggery, of course, with Messrs Broy and Nelligan and others all working away inside the operation but reporting to the IRA.

The joker responsible was, allegedly, this charmer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jocelyn_Lee_Hardy
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
Brendan O'Carroll is a smart guy and worth listening to (although I can't bear Mrs Brown's Boys at any price). I'll pull the programme down on iPlayer and give it a watch.
 
Do you think the BBC will broadcast a program about a celebrity whose ancestor was slotted by the IRA for political balance?
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
Do you think the BBC will broadcast a program about a celebrity whose ancestor was slotted by the IRA for political balance?
No reason why not, the 1920s were nearly a hundred years ago and the players had no relationship - either historical or political - with the Provos, Stickies, Irps and other charming folk we played footsie with in the late 20th Century.
 
Hope Mel Gibson didn't see it otherwise we'll have another film about those naughty Brits!
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
Hope Mel Gibson didn't see it otherwise we'll have another film about those naughty Brits!

Mel Gibson is.... "SLAB!"

Also starring:

Sean Hughes ----- Tom Cruise
Liam Campbell ---- Brad Pitt
Mickey McKevitt ---- Tommy Lee Jones
 
The programme states several times that Dublin Castle was home to British Intelligence Officers and anytime British Military Intelligence is mentioned it's 'Officers'. No mention of intelligence soldiers is made.

Is this just a small mistake or was it just officers (in the capacity that we know them today) that manned Dublin Castle and the HQ of MI at the time (1950s)?

In the 1950s. I'm hoping ( as a fan of Who Do You Think You Are) that this is a typo. Who's the celebrity anyway?
 
Mel Gibson is.... "SLAB!"

Also starring:

Sean Hughes ----- Tom Cruise
Liam Campbell ---- Brad Pitt
Mickey McKevitt ---- Tommy Lee Jones

Can't wait for the authentic 'oirish accents and the best thing from Hollywoods point of view is that all the baddies can be played by British actors! (As usual) Can you imagine who they will cast as the 'Black And Tans'?
 
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It's a portmanteau term. At that time, there were multiple agencies operating from the Castle, including, but not limited to, other government departments, RIC Special Branch, the Auxiliaries and the real military intelligence guys. Generally the military types were either officers or ex-officers. There would have been clerical support provided by both locally employed civilians and military clerks, but no Intelligence Corps soldiers or NCOs in the way we'd recognise them.

Google the "Cairo Gang" and what happened to them when Michael Collins sorted them out for some insight. They were touted to buggery, of course, with Messrs Broy and Nelligan and others all working away inside the operation but reporting to the IRA.

The joker responsible was, allegedly, this charmer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jocelyn_Lee_Hardy
Bet the Connaught Rangers annual dinners with this bloke in attendance were a real good night out.

No wonder my relatives boycotted them.


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I watched that on the iPlayer.

The programme depicted Peter O'Carrol as being a wholly innocent victim of a British murder squad. It seems, from his son's statement, that he was a player in his own right, a member of the IRB/IRA, involved in buying weapons and equipment from British soldiers and passing it on to the IRA.

http://www.cairogang.com/escaped/hardy/hardy.html
http://www.bureauofmilitaryhistory.ie/reels/bmh/BMH.WS0594.pdf

See P4 of this; http://www.bureauofmilitaryhistory.ie/reels/bmh/BMH.WS0314.pdf

This doesn't justify his murder, but that was always the probable result of his activities; he knew the risk and carried right on.

The other thing I found strange was the apparent use of a silenced firearm on two occasions. Silencers were available in the USA having been recently invented by Hiram Maxim (son of the machine gun inventor, who died in 1916), but were only marketed for rifles and shotguns. The first mention of them in Ireland I found was from 1923.

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/accessories/maxim-silencer/

I wondered whether the military intelligence officers knew of a way to improvise a silencer (wrap a revolver in fabric or something similar) or whether they'd used a captive bolt gun/humane killer, nicked from an abbatoir.

It was an interesting programme, but the omissions were more interesting than much of the content.
 
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alib

LE
Just speculation but I remember reading in the 70s Israeli hit teams were using small caliber underloaded pistols for assassinations in preference to silencers. The .22 Short has been around since the middle of the 19th century.
 

ACAB

LE
Just speculation but I remember reading in the 70s Israeli hit teams were using small caliber underloaded pistols for assassinations in preference to silencers. The .22 Short has been around since the middle of the 19th century.
Easily available and hard as hell to trace
 
What does it mean to underload?
Less propellant than standard; there's no need for great velocity and range if you're getting that close.

ISTR it was mentioned during the Jill Dando murder trial.

Just speculation but I remember reading in the 70s Israeli hit teams were using small caliber underloaded pistols for assassinations in preference to silencers. The .22 Short has been around since the middle of the 19th century.

Possible; I think you'd get an audible report from the discharge of the propellant gases , unless it was muffled somehow. Speculation on my part as well. A sub-sonic bullet would be easier to silence, as they mentioned in the programme;, but the gases still generate a lot of noise. Similar to a car with no silencer (Maxim developed silencers for cars at the same time as he developed firearm silencers). They were resourceful and experienced men, I just wonder how they did silent shootings when silencers don't seem to have been easily available.

I thought the Israeli's preference for the .22s was to ensure the killers had to get within arm's reach of the victim, to discourage them from shooting from a distance.
 
Just speculation but I remember reading in the 70s Israeli hit teams were using small caliber underloaded pistols for assassinations in preference to silencers. The .22 Short has been around since the middle of the 19th century.

I remember reading something similar, again back in the 70s.

It was about Israeli security guards who flew on every El Al flight being armed with "underpowered" weapons (I cannot think of a more appropriate phrase). The general idea was that the bullet would stay in whoever it hit rather than pass through and then through the aircraft skin.

I have no idea as to the veracity of this but my friend Ben went to the US in 1973 and the travel agent suggested that if he was worried about security he should fly El Al.
 

alib

LE
...
I thought the Israeli's preference for the .22s was to ensure the killers had to get within arm's reach of the victim, to discourage them from shooting from a distance.
I think mostly about relatively unskilled disposable hit teams operating abroad undercover with what at the time what was not much better than third world resources, there's that whole Irgun "improvisational" terrorist culture behind it. The thuggish KGB was delicate in its trade craft in comparison.
 

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