21062018 Another Minister resigns

#41
Airspace collision potentially horrific? I think fatal might be more apt. :)
Having just entered the Air Traffic world, I can confirm that the skies over the UK are absolutely mental. I sat with one of the London Sector controllers on Monday, and I can assure you nothing is going to be colliding. The amount of money the UK makes out of our airspace and airports means that investment in ways to keep it all from imploding is rife, and Swanwick is an example of that.

That said, Heathrow is literally operating on a knife edge. Not because a crash is likely, but because something happening on one runway causes absolute havoc. A third one would definitely help provide some redundancy.
 
#43
Or they could give Stansted and/or Gatwick a second runway... As with HS2 one suspects that the 'my airport is bigger than yours' Heathrow develpment is little more than a government vanity project.
stanstead and gatwick are a complete pain in the ass to get to and from which is why everyone (incl foreign vistors/business) who doesnt live under the flightpath prefers Heathrow - simples!
 
#45
stanstead and gatwick are a complete pain in the ass to get to and from which is why everyone (incl foreign vistors/business) who doesnt live under the flightpath prefers Heathrow - simples!
... and as somebody formerly living to the east of London, Heathrow was an absolute nightmare to get to at any time between 0500 and 2000.

The transport infrastucture on all sides of London leaves something (a lot in fact) to be desired and a new runway anywhere on the outer edge of the M25 will add considerably to the strain.
 
#47
The predictable part in this story is that while not many seem to know the minister who resigned there are the usual suspects who are now saying Boris Johnson needs to resign too, and that the fact Johnson is out of the UK on vote day he's not that far away so could come back........or resign.

It won't be long until the fact there is a 'Y' in the day is reason for some to call for Johnson's resignation.
 
#48
Check out Google Maps.

Heathrow and Gatwick actually aren't that far away from each other. I said recently in a thread about the third runway that a high speed railink, an electrified one to pacify the environmentalists, could be built between Heathrow and Gatwick. Some of it could be built underground where necessary to prevent destruction of homes and present infrastructure.

With the right scheme, you could travel from Heathrow to Gatwick virtually as fast as it currently takes you to get from terminal one to terminal five at Heathrow.

A third runway at Heathrow is a complete nonsense for every reason. Gatwick with the right transport infrastructure linking to Heathrow is an obvious choice except for the fact Heathrow wouldn't be able to enjoy the massive increase in profits that a third runway there would bring to them.

And that's what it's really about for Heathrow.
I'd agree on something like that, even around the M25 when it is moving you can be there relatively rapidly.

The whole Heathrow thing needs to be bulldozed and started again. I spent years travelling in and out of there and was always disappointed every time I came back from some supposedly third world location, or furrin regional airport to what is supposed to be the UK's premier airport.
 
#49
#52
#53
Is there an example of any other airport in the world that is split between two campuses 25 miles apart? A passenger changing flights between Heathrow and Gatwick would have to claim their luggage at the arrival airport and be rescreened at the departure airport making a mockery of your claimed connection times.

It would require:
Waiting time for luggage
Transfer time from arrival terminal to railway station
Transfer time by train on the new railway line
Reprocessing time at departure airport

and all this you claim to be comparable with transferring between T1 to T5?
So when you land at terminal one and have to go to terminal five, you don't have to wait for your luggage. Your luggage makes it's own way there does it?

Then of course traveling from one terminal to another, particularly from terminal one or terminal two to terminal five is so quick. You don't have to wait for the inter terminal transport to turn up as it does it's scheduled journey around the airport. It's just like being teleported straight there is it?

And then when you do arrive at the terminal for your next departure, you just stroll onto the aircraft and sit on your seat do you. No booking in procedures and checking your luggage required for the next stage of your journey?

A well planned bespoke dedicated high speed train link between the two airports could reduce the travel time between the two locations to a considerably short period of time adding a minimum amount of time and fuss to your travel experience.

No more extra flights passing over the capital city of the UK and pollution levels around Heathrow not being increased even further past the legal limits.

Whats not to like!
 
#54
So when you land at terminal one and have to go to terminal five, you don't have to wait for your luggage. Your luggage makes it's own way there does it?
If you are booked on a single itinerary, then yes, you’re luggage does make it’s own way there.

Then of course traveling from one terminal to another, particularly from terminal one or terminal two to terminal five is so quick. You don't have to wait for the inter terminal transport to turn up as it does it's scheduled journey around the airport. It's just like being teleported straight there is it?
No. Nor would you you be teleported from any terminal to the railway station. You have to wait until the scheduled transport turns up.

And then when you do arrive at the terminal for your next departure, you just stroll onto the aircraft and sit on your seat do you. No booking in procedures and checking your luggage required for the next stage of your journey?
If you are booked on a single itinerary, there are no booking in procedures or checking luggage. Are you sure you’ve ever flown anywhere before? These are questions anyone who has ever flown knows the answers to.

A well planned bespoke dedicated high speed train link between the two airports could reduce the travel time between the two locations to a considerably short period of time adding a minimum amount of time and fuss to your travel experience.
Quite frankly, given the ignorance of the travel process that you’ve already displayed, your ability to evaluate this is very much questionable.

No more extra flights passing over the capital city of the UK and pollution levels around Heathrow not being increased even further past the legal limits.

Whats not to like!
Oh, you’ll get that alright, as Heathrow loses out to it’s competitors and BA fades to an obscure regional airline.

In any case, if you fly BA, there is currently no need to change terminal when changing flights, they are all contained within T5. However distributing the hub across two airports would, as I have described, introduce significant logistics difficulties. So difficult for passengers that nobody. Their right mind would chose that option and would opt for CDG or Schipol instead.
 
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#55
If you are booked on a single itinerary, then yes, you’re luggage does make it’s own way there.


No. Nor would you you be teleported from any terminal to the railway station. You have to wait until the scheduled transport turns up.


If you are booked on a single itinerary, there are no booking in procedures or checking luggage. Are you sure you’ve ever flown anywhere before? These are questions anyone who has ever flown knows the answers to.


Quite frankly, given the ignorance of the travel process that you’ve already displayed, your ability to evaluate this is very much questionable.


Oh, you’ll get that alright, as Heathrow loses out to it’s competitors and BA fades to an obscure regional airline.

In any case, if you fly BA, there is currently no need to change terminal when changing flights, they are all contained within T5. However distributing the hub across two airports would, as I have described, introduce significant logistics difficulties. So difficult for passengers that nobody. Their right mind would chose that option and would opt for CDG or Schipol instead.
Firstly out of the millions of travellers who visit Heathrow every year, how many of them are travelling via a single itinerary?

Secondly, you seem to agree with me.

Thirdly, read my first point again?

Frankly, I've been semi retired for several years and don't travel much these days but as a former Councillor for the area including the land that the airport occupies, I am reasonably well versed in matters concerning Heathrow expansion and I stand by the points I made in my previous post.

You moan that Heathrow will lose out to it's competitors. No, it won't be losing out by not getting a third runway. It just won't be getting a massive boost to the lucrative profits that's it's already earning from the operation at Heathrow.

Not everybody solely flies BA. People frequently chop and change carriers for a huge number of reasons and a well planned high speed rail link between Heathrow and Gatwick is plain common sense. My suggestion would enhance the ability of the UK to compete against the European hubs and help us to maintain our position as a major gateway to both the UK and the rest of Europe..
 
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#56
Firstly out of the millions of travellers who visit Heathrow every year, how many of them are travelling via a single itinerary?
The overwhelming majority of them, for the simple reason that the logistics make travelling on separate itineraries extremely awkward.

Secondly, you seem to agree with me.
Yes, travelling between terminals is a pain in the arse. Imagine what travelling between airports is like. However, the point that you seem to be trying to avoid, is that travelling from a terminal to a railway station is every bit as inconvenient as travelling between terminals.

Thirdly, read my first point again?
As I say, you don’ Seem to understand the realities of travelling on connecting flights. I cant decide whether is this lack of experience or the over simplistic view of being a Londoner who thinks that all the issues revolve around travelling in or out of London. Heathrow is meant to be a national hub, not a local authority bus station.

Frankly, I've been semi retired for several years and don't travel much these days but as a former Councillor for the area including the land that the airport occupies, I am reasonably well versed in matters concerning Heathrow expansion and I stand by the points I made in my previous post.
Reinforcing my last poin. You are putting what you consider to be local,issues ahead of national realities.

You moan that Heathrow will lose out to it's competitors. No, it won't be losing out by not getting a third runway. It just won't be getting a massive boost to the lucrative profits that's it's already earning from the operation at Heathrow.

Not everybody solely flies BA. People frequently chop and change carriers for a huge number of reasons and a well planned high speed rail link between Heathrow and Gatwick is plain common sense. My suggestion would enhance the ability of the UK to compete against the European hubs and help us to maintain our position as a major gateway to both the UK and the rest of Europe..
I agree that a high speed rail link between Heathrow and Gatwick would make sense, but it wouldn’t remove the requirement for an additional runway at whichever airport is the designated hub. As I’ve already explained, splitting a hub across two campuses doesn’t work for a traveller. It would require a huge layover time, introduce a vast inconvenience in reclaiming and rechecking luggage, introduce additional cost for the rail connection, and introduce additional uncertainty that travelling by rail in the U.K. naturally brings.

If Heathrow is as unsuitable to be a major hub as you claim, then perhaps a better alternative is to build a new, purpose built airport in the Midlands on the HS2 route and let Heathrow revert to regional airport status. I suspect that this would suit the vast majority of U.K. travellers much more than the proposal that everything has to be London-centric.
 
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#57
Boris Johnson got their first, whether it is a good idea though is a matter for debate
There's a major clue in "Boris Johnson".
 
#58
Or they could give Stansted and/or Gatwick a second runway... As with HS2 one suspects that the 'my airport is bigger than yours' Heathrow develpment is little more than a government vanity project.
I
with respect apart from the connections already in place Cross rail the tube M4. If anything it's a failure of it's own success. This is really a row of the land price war with Windsor just down the road and just know that it's time to blame the Normans who built the damn thing in the wrong place. I can remember walking from Cranford Lane down to the old A4 across a cabbage field in the mid sixties and in comparison it's grown like topsy in a confined space.
 

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