20th of july...

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Ronin(GE), Jul 20, 2011.

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  1. ...here a time to remeber the brave ones.
    Yes,they had no clean hands, but at the end they proved to be men of honour.

    20 July plot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    From having grown up in the GDR, I know how hard it can be to question your whole set a belives and knowlede, to stand against your education and tradition...for the sake of concience.
    For them it was even harder as they knew they put their lives and that of their families in the line. I'm pretty shure I would not have had the guts to do so!
     

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  2. If the plot had succeeded,would it have ended the war any sooner?
     
  3. Had they succeeded, then IMHO the war could well have gone on a good deal longer as without the incessant meddling of the Austrian Corporal in the scheme of battle and sheer waste of life from his folly.

    If the likes of Von Mannstein had not been removed and allowed to withdraw to a front line just outside the German Border and consolidate, the Russki's were on the very edge of their logistic chain limit and there advance may well have foundered there.
     
  4. wasnt the plan to sue peace with the west then pile into the russians?
     
  5. Many of the July 20th plotters were Catholic aristocrats, whose upbringing, heritage, traditions, personal and religious beliefs and class automatically placed them at odds with the Nazis. They saw themselves as actual German patriots as opposed to the pagan guttersnipes in the Nazi Party who had perverted the very meaning of Germany.

    As an aside, Stauffenberg was descended from the Irish-born Col. Walter Butler who led the contingent of Irish and Scots mercenaries in the Imperial service who assassinated another tyrant, Albrecht von Wallenstein in 1634 during the Thirty Years' War.
     
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  6. Alexander the greats birthday 356BC, and the date Sitting Bull finally surrendered to the US army in 1881
     
  7. BiscuitsAB

    BiscuitsAB LE Moderator

    Sooooo how was your hang over after you'd finished drinking with Alex? ;-)
     
  8. Thanks for the comments.
    What I meant by education is that from younge age the boy learnd to obey(your superior) at all cost. Yet still they menaged to go beyond that...
    (They had to break their oath...they all where sworn in to that little ********)
     
  9. One of the best places to visit in Berlin, the museum of german resistance.

    Interestingly one of the few places in Berlin where you will see the swastika flag/motif (special permit within the confines of the building where the plotters were killed)
     
  10. Who knows?

    One of the things they wanted to achieve was to show the world that not all german are like that.
    (One of 'em quoted on the 10 righteous people to find in order to save Sodom.)

    And they showed to the others that you cant fall back to the: "Nobody could have done anything, we where just following orders." As f.e. Keitel did at his Nürnberg trial.

    In that way of concience over obedience, the men are used as a rolemodel in kadett education today.
    Google-Ergebnis für http://www.alles-fuer-den-offizier.de/orig2005/fotowandtstauffenbergsaal.JPG

    (Picture from the Stauffenberg hall in the army Officerschool Dresden)
     
  11. There's an interesting thread about this on a website called "Today in Alternate History" ( http://www.todayinah.co.uk ).
    It's a "What If..." website.
     
  12. They may have been men of honour, and brave ones at that, but their plans would have been more impressive if the date had been 20/7/41.

    They were happy to work for Adolf when things were going well. If D-Day had failed and allowed the Germans to concentrate on Russia, would the plot have happened then?
     
  13. Well, its hard to find "co plotters" if you appear to work against the "winning team". After all, Hitler managed to beat France and therefor "whased away" the shame of the Verailles treaty. The dire situation on all fronts has shurely helped that cause.
    Von Treskow f.e. was involved in acticities against Hitler since 1938...wanting to strike an getting the chance to(or to summon up the curage to) are 2 different things.
     
  14. Could this topic be even discussed on an open German website, or is still a bit sensitive still?
     
  15. Well, yes, it is discussed quiete openly...